Transcript for unchat class session. Creativity, ISP 5660. Saturday, March 11, 1 - 3 PM.

hello David and Rachael -- Melissa Merkau

H -- David Bowen

Hi, that is -- David Bowen

I really enjoyed Coorporate Creativity. I found it to be very helpful in everyday life. Plus I didn't think any of the concepts were too far out there. Very easy t o understand. -- Rachael Kuffa

hi Melissa -- Rachael Kuffa

Hello Everyone! -- Janus Landrum -- Janus Landrum

i have enjoyed corporate creativity as well....maybe i can relate to it more than the first book, because i "live" in the corporate world five days a week (ha, ha) -- Melissa Merkau

hi janus -- Melissa Merkau

i also really enjoy the forums....i have learned so much...and believe that by writing what we think....we are more apt to participate more.... -- Melissa Merkau

Online courses are about being yourself. -- David Bowen

Hi. Kathy -- David Bowen

hello everyone glad to be here -- Kathleen Asselin

OK, does everyone have the Agenda? -- David Bowen

hi Kathy! -- Rachael Kuffa

I like the forums, because you can get a sense for what others think about the same topics -- Janus Landrum

Yes -- Janus Landrum

hey rahcel -- Kathleen Asselin

yes -- Rachael Kuffa

Not on Agenda: group critiquing of papers

i also wanted to throw out the idea to everyone as to whether or not our papers could be read and critiqued by fellow classmates.....we did this in the last online course i was in and the critiques i received from fellow classmates was precious...because i was able to hear from several voices how my work was viewed....just a thought -- Melissa Merkau

yes i have the agenda and i found many of the topics interesting -- Kathleen Asselin

Wow i expected more people to be here -- Rachael Kuffa

I think others will show up. -- David Bowen

What about Melissa's question? -- David Bowen

yes i think its early -- Kathleen Asselin

i know i had a problem logging on.. my Java was screwed up -- Rachael Kuffa

I would go with what the majority want to do. -- Janus Landrum

Melissa, how did the critiquing work - was it required? Was it for the grade? -- David Bowen

i participated in an online class before and found the peer editing usesful and helpful we only had three people perhaps we could break into groups -- Kathleen Asselin

in our class we were initially reguired to peer edit but as the deadline for the senior essay became closer the professor eased up on the requirement i still found the experience helpful -- Kathleen Asselin

hey bernard welcom -- Kathleen Asselin

On the phone with Jacj Beall -- David Bowen

I don't know for this class. The papers we write are a bit different, but whatever the group wants to do is fine with me. -- Janus Landrum

hello azure i enjoyed the discussion of the origins of your name -- Kathleen Asselin

Hello Kathleen -- Bernard Chevalier

david - the critiquing was not a course requirement...we were split up into groups according to class size and then we were asked to critique the other papers within our group...it was so interesting that most of us opted to view papers within other groups as well......i guess it was just interesting that we were able to hear from other eyes....and that was PRIOR to submitting our papers so we actually had the opportunity to revise papers according to what others offered... -- Melissa Merkau

Sorry - trying to help Jack. -- David Bowen

Agenda Topic 1. Making up a missed class

About making up a missed class - no one here has to do that for this class, at least. -- David Bowen

Hi everyone. -- Azure Robertson

Agenda Topic 2. unchat

So on to topic 2, but you already know about that if you are here. -- David Bowen

Not on Agenda: back to group critiquing of papers

Janus I agree with you. I do think it would be helpful as an option but maybe not required. But I don't mind either way -- Rachael Kuffa

This is about group critiquing, right? -- David Bowen

yes -- Rachael Kuffa

Yes -- Janus Landrum

Yes -- Janus Landrum

also...we did this through blackboard and i am sure the instructor knew who did and did not bother to critique other papers....i -- Melissa Merkau

Well, let's set up a vote. I'll do it. -- David Bowen

I think I have an old version of the agenda?? -- Azure Robertson

There was only ever one version of the Agenda. Group editing was not on it. -- David Bowen

Hello everyone, having a problem posting message. -- Bernard Chevalier

peer editing is a great way to get feedback -- Kathleen Asselin

sounds great to me...... -- Melissa Merkau

Well, I think I will put that off until the end if we have time - group ciritiquing, that is. -- David Bowen

i have really enjoyed the variety of information that i have learned via the forum sessions....and truly believe that i have learned more from online courses than from regular courses... -- Melissa Merkau

are we voting yet? -- Kathleen Asselin

No, we're putting it off. -- David Bowen

Agenda Item 3: What you should be working on

What you should be working on - everyone clear on that? -- David Bowen

That's item 3. -- David Bowen

Yes -- Janus Landrum

Yes -- Azure Robertson

Yes -- Bernard Chevalier shout

yes -- Kathleen Asselin

Did Jack figure it out? -- Rachael Kuffa

He needed another Browser. He is working to download Firefox. -- David Bowen

yes -- Melissa Merkau

yes -- Rachael Kuffa

don't think so....he is not "sitting" in the class yet -- Melissa Merkau

He's probably still working on Firefox. He is going to call me again if he runs into trouble. -- David Bowen

Agenda Item 4: Notes for Essays (citations for quotes)

On the essays - references for quotes. Everyone OK there? -- David Bowen

did he have trouble during the practice session? -- Melissa Merkau

He didn't do any of the practice sessions. -- David Bowen

yes -- Kathleen Asselin

i found the problem with internet explorer was the java was the wrong version. i just updated it -- Rachael Kuffa

i can relate i had problems initally as well -- Kathleen Asselin

Hi, -- Gianna Bacher

Yes -- Bernard Chevalier

yes -- Gianna Bacher

yes -- Azure Robertson

Yes, I undrstand Quotes. -- Janus Landrum

Hi Dr. Bowen, -- Gianna Bacher

i couldn't access unchat from work -- Melissa Merkau

Now, did everyone actually read the quotes - they are important for class today! -- David Bowen

"The real stunner?" -- David Bowen

Everyone thinking? -- David Bowen

yes -- Rachael Kuffa

I did very quickly review them, they are certainly helpful -- Gianna Bacher

quotation -- Melissa Merkau

I read them -- Rachael Kuffa

i am not sure what you mean by real stunner please explain -- Kathleen Asselin

Not exactly sure what quotes u r referring 2 -- Azure Robertson

On Page 2, under #4. -- David Bowen

Are the quotes you're speaking of in the agenda you mailed? -- Bernard Chevalier

The man is talking so it is in Quotes. Is that what you are looking for or the comparison about Florida? -- Janus Landrum

just got the agenda 20 minutes ago. Had trouble finding it. So , No. Sorry. -- Azure Robertson

i just found the real stunner thanks -- Kathleen Asselin

quotation A was interesting.....maybe the companies felt that they had to be in the limlight and somewhat form their ventures around the talented people in order to reap the business (somewhat cater to the people rather than have the talented people have to travel to them)? is this what you are looking for? -- Melissa Merkau

No - we'll get to this later -- David Bowen

Hi Dr. Bowen, -- Gianna Bacher

So in the essays you want us to credit the where the quote came from like a research paper even though it is not a research paper? -- Rachael Kuffa

Yes. -- David Bowen

got it -- Melissa Merkau

I keep hitting the enter key!---It has been awhile since I have written a paper and I am a bit confused as to when to use paranthesis (quotation #5) vs. underlining. -- Gianna Bacher

do you still want a works cited page. i usually draw about our web page reading and i have even quoted others from our online discussions thanks gianna for the quote -- Kathleen Asselin

No weorks cited page -- David Bowen

gianna...don't feel bad.....i had an entry with just one word earlier because i pressed the enter key too early -- Melissa Merkau

This is helpful. I try to follow my book I have on MLA papers, also. -- Janus Landrum

i have it in front of me-printed it out. did not have time to absorb it. will just follow along i guess. -- Azure Robertson

for some reason i assumed that an essay was supposed to be in one's own words...and that was the difference between an essay and research paper but i know better now -- Melissa Merkau

I did say during the first class that one point of an essay, besides expressing your own ideas, was to convicne the Instructor that you had read the assignments. Good quotes help there. -- David Bowen

got it - MLA cited style -- Melissa Merkau

i find that the Everyday Writer is a good source -- Kathleen Asselin

But on to the content of these quotes. -- David Bowen

hi kay and jack -- Kathleen Asselin

Melissa I think it is but at the same time I think we are supposed to back up what we say with where we read it or how we came upon that conclusion -- Rachael Kuffa

Yes -- David Bowen

Dr. Bowen- -- Jack Beall

You made it! -- David Bowen

the Everyday Writer was a required book in my first WSU course....so glad that i kept it....it has helped a great deal....i believe i paid $5 for it on Amazon... -- Melissa Merkau

Dr. Bowen, I just got on!!! I tried it one more time and it worked! -- Jack Beall

to your question about understanding quotes. yes. -- Azure Robertson

glad you could make it jack.... -- Melissa Merkau

Kathleen, is that a book or web page? -- Tiffany Russell

A book. It is a standard in the Department6 of Interdisciplinary Studies. -- David Bowen

kathleen, nevermind! just say your other answer -- Tiffany Russell

Yes, the everyday writer is great. I misunderstood about the first essay also, so I will try to be better about following MLA. -- Janus Landrum

thanks melissa and kathy for the reference material suggestion! -- Gianna Bacher

"saw" not say -- Tiffany Russell

melissa, I have enjoyed responding to your website messages....what are we discussing at this time so i can get caught up -- Jack Beall

We are on topic 4 -- David Bowen

Everybody take a minute and read the quotes for Topic 4. For the content. -- David Bowen

we are discussing the essay style and that you need to cite your works within the essay (MLA style)...but not provide a works cited page -- Melissa Merkau

No - we have moved on to the content of those two quotes! -- David Bowen

Every writing class seems to be different; how is one to grasps the technique to become an effective writer. -- Bernard Chevalier

by the way....thanks -- Melissa Merkau

The content of those two quotes on Page 2? -- David Bowen

Take a minute and read them -- David Bowen

would it suffice in essays, to simply state the page number where a quote is from, seeing as how our essays originate from just one book? -- Jack Beall

Just the number should work, but I find it confusing. Could you put the author in - then I know what that is. -- David Bowen

But the two quotes on Page 2. -- David Bowen

Check'em out. -- David Bowen

Done? -- David Bowen

I was stunned by that stunner. -- David Bowen

yes -- Kathleen Asselin

yes -- Rachael Kuffa

i have read them -- Melissa Merkau

OK - we will come back to them -- David Bowen

why were you stunned -- Kathleen Asselin

What do gays have to do with economic development? -- David Bowen

i think the quote correlates to the silicon valley uprising in the 90s. a lot of creative thought and innovative technologies occurred there....i don't really understand the gay reference though -- Jack Beall

We'll get to that. -- David Bowen

i read them too. -- Jack Beall

So those two Quotes. They are saying that talented people were leaving cities, and they were trying to figure out why. Then when they compared their two lists, they were similar in that the gay index and the measure of high tech growth were close? Is this correct? -- Janus Landrum

Yes -- David Bowen

yes -- Azure Robertson

The gays are very creative individuals and they were going to the high tech jobs? -- Janus Landrum

Not quite. We'll come to it. -- David Bowen

Agenda Item 5: How is the course going for you?

But now, #5. How is the course going for everyone? First, keeping up, gettin the assignments doen. (content next)? -- David Bowen

Hi, -- Gianna Bacher

Hello, -- Gianna Bacher

"the gays"?? -- Azure Robertson

I am enjoying it -- Rachael Kuffa

There were some complaints. -- David Bowen

This is not a course where there is something we HAVE to cover, so I like everyone to get out of it what they were looking for. -- David Bowen

what were some of the common complaints? -- Jack Beall

Creativity (the book) was too theoretical - not sure what that means -- David Bowen

i don't believe that they were complaints for the most part....it is just that the first book was very hard to get into... -- Melissa Merkau

because most gay people are shunned by society so they isolate themselves somewhat by getting into fields where they feel safe and apart from society -- Melissa Merkau

We'' come back to the gays. -- David Bowen

at first the class was some what confusing. I have taken online classes before, and this class just seemed more confusing. I was having a problem locating everything at first because of all the diferent websites -- Rachael Kuffa

i also thought of creativity in a different way before taking the course....but now realize differently -- Melissa Merkau

The first book was very dry and didn't captivate the reader -- Jack Beall

sorry david....i started typing a while ago when we were still on the subject -- Melissa Merkau

I don't think the complaint about the Creativity book was really a complaint, but more that it was not as easy reading. -- Janus Landrum

I do have to say that I've enjoyed "Corporate Creativity" over "Creativity: Flow...". -- Tiffany Russell

ugh! companies are successfully migrating into these "corporate park" systems. Dallas, TX is a great example. I believe this has much to do with the cost to do business. Regarding the comment that states that companies "move towards the talented" people. Brings to mind, like miscible w/like, or birds of a feather.... the fact is if you are a creative individual and you are trying to find a job in a depressed economy, of course you are going to flock to the external environment where you can find like minded individuals along w/the right company -- Gianna Bacher

The class has definitly changed my perception of what Creativity is...including little c vs. big C -- Jack Beall

Now that we have read a few of the other books, it is easier. -- Janus Landrum

it is moving along. I do enjoy corporate creativity. And i very much enjoy my fourth book choice-finding flow -- Azure Robertson

Jack, how so? -- Tiffany Russell

I am doing well keeping up, but it does take daily logins. I have read 3 of the 4 books that i need to read -- Jack Beall

I like this class a lot. -- Janus Landrum

I like the class discussions -- Kathleen Asselin

OK, so things seem to be moving along OK in the class. -- David Bowen

i always feel stressed at the beginning of an online course because i don't know exactly what and how the teacher will respond and also because i like becomming totally familiar with the agenda and to make sure i know what is expected so i don't miss any required assignments -- Melissa Merkau

I still need clarity on big cvs little c -- Azure Robertson

Big C is changing the culture in a major way. Little c is more everyday. -- David Bowen

jack - stop it - you're making me look bad -- Melissa Merkau

Tiffany...how so to what? -- Jack Beall

Everything's fine for me. -- Bernard Chevalier

Flow is interesting and Creating Minds is also very good. You get different perspectives. -- Janus Landrum

OK - you are starting Creating Minds? -- David Bowen

i have thoroughly enjoyed the course so far -- Melissa Merkau

i think if we could meet like this weekly as opposed to or along withthe forums that would be much better. Thank you for the clarification -- Azure Robertson

i am enjoying flow better than creativity but i dont think i would have understood flow without reading creativy -- Kathleen Asselin

Jack: You said that the class has changed your perception of creativity. I was just wondering how it has changed. -- Tiffany Russell

Wating for Jack's reply to Tiffany -- David Bowen

Jack? -- David Bowen

sorry i whispered it....i was saying that my perception changed with the whold little c vs. big C thing....however, i think common, everyday, little c things can be important! -- Jack Beall

Oh yes! -- David Bowen

What Csik was saying in ther second quote was that in order to understand little c we have to understand Big C first. -- David Bowen

little c's help create big c's -- Kathleen Asselin

Picasso was a very interesting individual. -- Bernard Chevalier

Yes, I have just started it, but hope to read a lot this weekend, and I am into the 4th Chapter of Flow. -- Janus Landrum No Comment

i think i like creating minds best reading biographies is helpful to understand the concepts of creativity -- Kathleen Asselin No Comment

I think the reason why folks like corporate creativity, over creativity is (and I may be grossly over exaggerting) the demographics of thsi group probably suggest we are all full-time, parents, and work-adults. Corporate Creativity has concepts that can be applied to real life scenarios whereas Creativity is more explorative and theoretical -- Gianna Bacher No Comment

i addressed this little c vs big C idea in my essay, saying that people can be creative within their own, current work situations and make a significant difference -- Jack Beall shout

does it make sense tothink that big c's could not exsist without the little c's? -- Azure Robertson

The reason that Big C is important to study is that there we see pure creativity, or as pure as it gets. -- David Bowen

no prob mom, try to jump in -- Tiffany Russell

Azure I agree with you -- Kathleen Asselin

It is too bad that this does not happen everyday in the corporate world. -- Janus Landrum

o.k Tiff:) -- Kay Russell shout

Agenda Item 6: Mission creep

OK, so now passing to Mission Creep (#6) -- David Bowen

janus what does not happen -- Kathleen Asselin

Creativity does not happen -- David Bowen

Corporate creativity was good and interesting; I was amazed at the way Russia do things. -- Bernard Chevalier shout

Along about this time, people in this course get to thinking that everything good has to be creative. -- David Bowen

Where i am the Little "c" does not happen daily. -- Janus Landrum

i believe that the little c's compliment the big c's -- Melissa Merkau

i felt Corporate Creativity was fascinating and i was able to visualize how the organization that i work within could benefit from some of its theories and strategies. -- Jack Beall

Mission creep -- David Bowen

What I mean by happen is that the creativity does not seem to be there all the time. -- Janus Landrum

Well, they talk about why this is difficult for managers and supervisors. -- David Bowen

Dr. Bowen-mission creap suggests that the original focus of an idea has been altered...do you feel that has happened within this course? -- Jack Beall

That's what I am sayiang - everything good is felt to be creat5ive -- David Bowen

i'm assuming that mission creep is important to creativity because creativity can often cover a wide spans of different types of creativity -- Melissa Merkau

No - I want to be clear about the different aspects of creativity -- David Bowen

janus perhaps it is in the incubation period -- Kathleen Asselin

For Mission Creep I agree with Dr. Bowen on his Iraq theory. -- Janus Landrum

I agree Janus -- Rachael Kuffa

jack - could it mean that the idea of creativity has been expanded? -- Melissa Merkau

It has become vague -- David Bowen

I see, so as one focuses on a given idea, new ideas will emerge, thus sparking creative thought... -- Jack Beall

Not exactly what I am after here -- David Bowen

Vague or Diverse? -- Jack Beall

Different things are being confused -- David Bowen

O.k.--mission creep, Imy viewpoint on Iraq is that Saddam Hussein, was part of a much larger issue. As we know we are only fed a small piece of the pie, and the piece that we get is served to us by the media. So they get to pick the flavor. I think we are there, to create a buffer between two very ancient societies that are very complex and that have a much different culture. Iraq is very strategically located in the Middle East. I believe it is our way of attempting to convert this area. -- Gianna Bacher

Iraq was an example. "Creativity" needs to be thought of in its diofferent aspects -- David Bowen

i also agree about the Iraq theory -- Melissa Merkau

mission creep is interesting. Makes sense to tme. -- Azure Robertson

Agenda Item 7: Creativity and Friends (Flow, Creativity, Innovation)

So that was an intro to #7 -- David Bowen

Flow - an internal state -- David Bowen

That is, if you think of creativity as purely a feeling within yourself, that is the Flow aspect -- David Bowen

Regarding mission creep I think the theory refers to the orginal mission statement being lost or evolving into something different -- Kathleen Asselin

Picasso was a different sort of guy. Just because he was "cranky", had nothing to do with his creativity. Maybe his being mad gave him the push to be more creative. -- Janus Landrum

Well, all of these people in Creating Minds are not exactly nice. -- David Bowen

i love that feeling of flow -- Azure Robertson

Exactly - it's a great feeling, it's why I think people love creativity -- David Bowen

either way, the guy had to go (Saddam). I understand the orginal mission was set, but new ones emerged as a result of that. If one accomplishes a goal, one tends to want to take that goal further, true? -- Jack Beall

Well, I would disagree there, Jack, but back to the course here. -- David Bowen

being nice is not the point of creativity being creative is -- Kathleen Asselin

Right -- David Bowen

Jack I couldn't agree more with you -- Rachael Kuffa

Jack - i think sometimes people get carried away with their goals -- Melissa Merkau

Flow - an internal state, OK? -- David Bowen

Creativity is changing the symbolic culture - an external thing, outside the person -- David Bowen

I totally agree with Csik's idea that flow occurs during times of relaxation, or when one distances themselves from normal stresses....i notice a lot of times that some of my best ideas occur when i am on vacation. -- Jack Beall

Flow is much like peace of mind. Calm and Tranquility can help the creativity flow. -- Janus Landrum

Some people experience Flow not as relaxing but as energizing, or "buzz" -- David Bowen

so flow is the motivation of creativity -- Kathleen Asselin

Yeah, that's my thinking -- David Bowen

sometimes we just don't take the time to relax and let our minds think freely -- Melissa Merkau

Flow is not always relaxing. -- David Bowen

Sure, if you are all stressed out it is harder to concentrate or be creative. -- Janus Landrum

i believe that flow is an internal state and that it actually takes practice to get the hang of it -- Melissa Merkau

sorry dr. bowen, didn't mean to rant, from a creative standpoint, I believe there is much more, but as you statement suggest that indeed I will take this as an example--tx -- Gianna Bacher

Azure - loves Flow - is it relaxing or exciting for you? -- David Bowen

externally, our whole exsistance has cahnged drastically in just the past ten years drastically because of creativity. Look where we are siting right now. chatting via the internet -- Azure Robertson

Dr. Bowen, you hit the nail on the head with flow being internal. -- Bernard Chevalier

I think that is why a lot of painters or writers lock themselves away. They can concentrate and think more creatively. -- Janus Landrum

-Janus, that is right, this is discussed as pyschic entropy in Flow -- Gianna Bacher

mellisa yes flow is internal and creativyt is external -- Kathleen Asselin

i agree, but i also think that environment and personal circumstance, in terms of where you are in your life, can play a part in Flow as well. -- Jack Beall

OK -- David Bowen

Azure - is Flow for you relaxing always, or can it be frantic? -- David Bowen

that makes lots of sence Kathy, we need something internal (such as flow) to create something external (creativity) -- Rachael Kuffa

flow is both to me it depends on the cause of it. When I sing and feel it. it is exciting. but when i am with my man and we are having an amazing conversation it is relaxing -- Azure Robertson

Yes -- David Bowen

Creativity is external. -- David Bowen

Csik implies it always involves a product. -- David Bowen

I was reading how Picasso expressed his feelings through his art . -- Bernard Chevalier

Without a product, it is difficult to influence a lot of pople. -- David Bowen

The internal process of Flow brings forth the external result of Creativity -- Jack Beall

I'm not sure about that. They are related, I agree -- David Bowen

But exactly how, I am not sure. -- David Bowen

what about the creative ideas that evolve through the corporate world and do not involve a process...not a product -- Melissa Merkau

Csik covers this also - there is a document that describes the process that is a product -- David Bowen

People cannot follow the process unless it is documented -- David Bowen

At least I think this is the case. -- David Bowen

The processes that I am supposed to follow at Ford are all dcoumented. -- David Bowen

-if doesn't involve aproduct it will certainly involve an objective to maintain alignment with a company! -- Gianna Bacher

I belive in the corporate world, the majority of the time that is true. -- Janus Landrum

i meant to say that some creative ideas stimulate a process...not a product -- Melissa Merkau -- Melissa Merkau

Yes, that is correct. But the process is usually documented -- David Bowen

Anyone who has ever been "in the zone" knows what that feeling is and would definitly like to harness it as often as possible. -- Jack Beall

Yes - you want to keep going back there -- David Bowen

And innovation I think is changing the material culture -- David Bowen

can't agree with u more Jack -- Azure Robertson

That is what I meant, I was answering your answer on Ford and documentation. In my department documentation is important in order for people to follow it. -- Janus Landrum

Yeah - people can't follow it consistently without something to refer to -- David Bowen

Are we OK with these aspects of creativity? -- David Bowen

One mroe thing - according to Csik in Flow and Finding Flow, youcan have Flow without being creative. -- David Bowen

yes it is changing culture...development of technology just keeps pushing out newfangled things and therefore material objects are on the rise -- Melissa Merkau

Yes -- Bernard Chevalier

yes i am okay with the aspects of creativity -- Melissa Merkau

dr bowen during the reading they reference material culture versus symbolic culture what is the difference -- Kathleen Asselin

Symbolic - using symbols such as word, musical notes, math, art -- David Bowen

Materiual - working directly with things - food, etc. -- David Bowen

In music, the composer works in the symbolic culture but the violinist works in the material culture. -- David Bowen

--that is correct dr. bowen, a great example is this country, there are many controversial issues occuring in this country which is hindering us and putting us behind globally. ---i,e-stem cell research, bureacracy is hindering the great minds in this country on an argument of morality. -- Gianna Bacher

yes -- Azure Robertson

sure. -- Jack Beall

Yes -- Janus Landrum

Exactly. -- Janus Landrum

david your example helped clarify the meanins -- Kathleen Asselin

OK - I like that example too -- David Bowen

Agenda Item 8: The Rise of the Creative Class by Richard Florida

OK, now on to the gays - the Rise of the Creat5ive Class -- David Bowen

Don 't even start with Stem Cell Research. It is a powder keg. Minds do need to be opened up there. I have done some research for a paper on it. -- Janus Landrum

Richard Florida found that the number of gays in an area is correlated with how fast it is growing -- David Bowen

# 8 on the agenda -- David Bowen

Now, what do gays have to do with economic development? -- David Bowen

This is a whole new dimension to creativyt -- David Bowen

Why it is important -- David Bowen

good question -- Rachael Kuffa

Well, creative people, it turns out, are looking for a diverse and accepting life style. -- David Bowen

Not like "the old days" -- David Bowen

People used to follow employers, but now employers follow people -- David Bowen

That is quite interesting. -- Azure Robertson

Employers need the creative people to generate innovation -- David Bowen

that makes sence. Because when you think about it gay people are already living that lifestyle -- Rachael Kuffa

Well, sometimes, but if gays feel comfortable, then there are a lot of various kinds of people -- David Bowen

don't often creative people seek out the employers too? -- Jack Beall

What Florida found is that the high-tech companies are moving to where the creative people are, and the creative people want a diverse and accepting lifestyle -- David Bowen

The gays migrate to areas that are gay-friendly, they are creative and therefore they change the percentage of the workforce in certain areas. -- Janus Landrum

It is not the gays by themselves. -- David Bowen

Immigrants too, for example -- David Bowen

my point is people who were considered creative were not always tolerate. I am referring to TS Elliot who creating minds suggested was anti semitic -- Kathleen Asselin

But they need tolerance for different ideas -- David Bowen

"gays" aren't the only ones looking for that! Very different from the "old times" indeed -- Azure Robertson

No, the younger generation are going to areas where they can show their creative talents. -- Janus Landrum

Yes -- David Bowen

i believe that gays are becomming more prominent and being that they are more open about it, there is a rise in the creativeness simply because they tend to shy toward a field that is more private rather than going in the limelight -- Melissa Merkau

david yes -- Kathleen Asselin

Aren't most people looking for a diverse and accepting lifestyle these days? -- Jack Beall

Not necessarily - Michigan is behind here -- David Bowen

i am doing my third research paper on T.S. Eliot....he was a very different character....and the public also had doubts about his sexuality as well -- Melissa Merkau

The older population is not interested in that at this point. -- Janus Landrum

Often parents are after a more closed society -- David Bowen

i think in our country, there is generally a better level of acceptance and tolerance overall. -- Jack Beall shout

Not all of Michigan -- Azure Robertson

??? -- David Bowen

i Jack, I wish it were true, but we are far from it. -- Gianna Bacher

i get it -- Rachael Kuffa

-I believe because the gay community must struggle because they are considered a sub-culture and our not always well received among mainstream, they migrate to certain centers, cretaing an accepting, external environment, to work, create and establish themselves. These communities thrive because they are more open, progressive communities! -- Gianna Bacher

Again, it is not gays directly, but difference -- David Bowen

i found it interesting that creative peopkle who were straight asks about campion rights to test if an employer was tolerate -- Kathleen Asselin

Yes - Florida was stunned by that -- David Bowen

Gianna I agree, I have 2 gay uncles who moved to large gay communities bc of that reason -- Rachael Kuffa

I think that is changing Gianna. -- Janus Landrum

employers following employees is a good thing. It opens things up -- Azure Robertson

It's not that gays are bad people, its what they do. -- Bernard Chevalier

i guess i am not surprised that todays creative people are diverse and perhaps more tolerate -- Kathleen Asselin

What I think happens is that creative people look for an area where new things are tolerated -- David Bowen

They need this in order to be creative, and they understand that is their edge -- David Bowen

o -- Gianna Bacher

Makes sense. -- Janus Landrum

Hi Rachel & Janus, -- Gianna Bacher

Creative people need tolerance for new things, and the presence of gays and immigrants is a measure of that. -- David Bowen

Not that creative people look for these things directly - just that you find them together -- David Bowen

sometimes i think that the more diverse some people are (in all aspects of life) the more creative they are.... -- Melissa Merkau

Well, to be creative means to be new in SOMEthign at least -- David Bowen

i don't necessarily think that is why younger generations are leaving detroit, though. -- Azure Robertson

Hi -- Rachael Kuffa

Well, Florida did interviews and focus groups, and that is his conclusion -- David Bowen

If a city has a lot going on and good schools etc. that is a draw. -- Janus Landrum

i think people in general are looking for a quality of life versus just a job to pay bills -- Kathleen Asselin

Yes -- David Bowen

so in short, a diverse lifestyle leads to diverse thought -- Jack Beall

Yes -- David Bowen

azure they are leaving detroit to find a better quality of life sad but true -- Kathleen Asselin

I agree Janus -- Kay Russell

We'll get to Detroit later - #9 -- David Bowen

yes, and detroit doesn't hold that -- Azure Robertson

At this point a lot of younger people are leaving Detroit because of how hard it is to get a decent job in what they want to do or in any area right now. -- Janus Landrum

But that is because hi-tech employers are not locating here - they are chasing the creative people -- David Bowen

Florida's research says -- David Bowen

1. Creative people locate for the lifestyle (that happens first) -- David Bowen

Then (2) employers locate to where the creative people congregate -- David Bowen

when you think about it....the midwest thrives on the auto industry...the industry is doing so poorly...that the younger generation wants to stay away from jobs that could possibly end up being cut....so they are looking at different areas for different types of opportunitiies -- Melissa Merkau

What is it about Detroit that we can't get them to come here? -- Janus Landrum

I plan on leaving and not because detroit is not accepting-it's tired -- Azure Robertson

OK, well you just answered that one -- Janus Landrum

i also believe that people are seeking quality of life...however, many of the students that i work with believe that this goal will be achieved through a substantive paycheck -- Jack Beall

Ok, but are Flroida;'s results clear - creative poeple follow the lifestyle, then employers follow the creative people -- David Bowen

Yes, but the paycheck does not help with happiness always. -- Janus Landrum

i don't necessarily think about a good paying job. i look for happiness -- Azure Robertson

quality of life. there you go. -- Azure Robertson

jack - are your coworkers younger? -- Melissa Merkau

Florida is writing about the high-tech industries, the start-ups -- David Bowen

Yes, but is Florida the big thing now? -- Janus Landrum

Well, we'll get to that -- David Bowen

Flroida is being listened to carefully these days -- David Bowen

I don't think money makes happiness but I think it can help -- Rachael Kuffa

in answer to your question melissa-yes and no -- Jack Beall

illbe honest.. im 23 and I am going to school so I can get a good pay check -- Rachael Kuffa

Agenda Item 9: So what about Detroit? (starts somewhere in here)

perhaps a cultural revival or aritistic renewal in Detroit would help draw more businesses to locate there....this could be initiated in the schools maybe -- Jack Beall

Could Detroit's problem be their management? -- Janus Landrum

jack i guess i would point out to them money isn't everything as we read creativity is hurt by intrinsic rewards -- Kathleen Asselin

good paychecks come and go -- Azure Robertson

but the bills dont -- Jack Beall shout

I sometimes say that you can't do a good job if you don't enjoy the job -- David Bowen

Yes Janus -- Bernard Chevalier

I think Detroit doesn't pay enough, crime is too high ( I often hear of muggings, cars stolen, etc.), and the creative output is rather stale offerings of things already done because people are accepting of it rather than demanding of better, improved newer things such as in the renaissance era -- Tiffany Russell

When I lived in Detroit as a kid, going downtown was a big thing, now it isn't. -- Janus Landrum

yes, I agree w/florida, but to a point, w/a global economy we are not always seeking the most "qualified candidates" from within, but externally, ie. China, India, Korea -- Gianna Bacher

many times the younger generations do not have any ties and sometimes believe that the grass is greener on the other side....and being that they have the opportunity - they may as well experience it...they can always come back -- Melissa Merkau

so. one thing i have learned if you work hard money has a way of working itself out. i refuse to stress about money. -- Azure Robertson

i agree with Dr. Bowen. the more you enjoy your job, the better you will be at it -- Jack Beall

I thought it was extrinsic that was harmful -- Tiffany Russell

You can live in the Suburbs and get mugged, you can't always put it on -- Janus Landrum

Detroit. -- Janus Landrum

??? -- David Bowen

yes, extrinsic. see, money in itself is harmful -- Azure Robertson

i can honestly say that i am living the dream.....although i have worked since i was eleven years old (non stop).....i am secure in my career and have everything i need....the only thing i would change is the michigan winter.... -- Melissa Merkau

Mellisa i agree i left detroit for 20 to chicago and i am back -- Kathleen Asselin

Sorry my finger slipped, you can't put it all on Detroit. That is a media thing too. -- Janus Landrum

Places that have the creative lifestyle and the high-tech companies: Seattle, San Francisco, New York, Boston, Chicago, Altanta -- David Bowen

Detroit could have a lot more to offer if it would get its act together. -- Janus Landrum

Good point - ciming up soon! -- David Bowen

Janus great point the media is very key in creating detroits image -- Kathleen Asselin

sometimes i just think that we need to experience things either on a different level or a different place in order to find out exactly where we need to be -- Melissa Merkau

Janus, I know. I'm a detroiter, but some of the people that I know have complained about the violence and crime, and stated that as a reason for moving -- Tiffany Russell -- Tiffany Russell

The creative people that Florida writes about want an experiential life style -- David Bowen

Talk to the chef -- David Bowen

Talk to the musician -- David Bowen

Talk to the bookseller -- David Bowen

One person's vision, not a chain -- David Bowen

I think a more diverse government would be the beginning of the new Detroit. -- Bernard Chevalier

Thanks Janus, wow Tiffany do you actuallly live in the city because I do and I am offended. That kind of thinking is why detroit is not a diverse community as it should be. There is a lot more going on here socio-econimically, that is symptomatic of many things, that being said, it doesn't help that you digest everything fed to you on the news and apply it to the entire city. -- Gianna Bacher

but crime and violence happen everywhere -- Melissa Merkau

Oh, at this point I would not go back to the city itself to live, for various reasons, but I hate hearing about all the violence sometimes. Like to news report last week of robberies at WSU. -- Janus Landrum

i am looking for that kind of lifestyle -- Azure Robertson

i coulnd't agree with you more about the government dr. bowen -- Gianna Bacher

But it is that lifestyle that young creative people are after -- David Bowen

Talk to the chef -- David Bowen

Participate, not just observe -- David Bowen

Gianna, I'm not speaking on what the news mentions. I'm mentioning what people have told me are their personal reasons for leaving -- Tiffany Russell

This is not about violence and crime -- David Bowen

They are not bonuses -- David Bowen

well, i will be 30, in june but i do consider myself a young creative person -- Azure Robertson

Detroit has theatres, restaurants are popping up everyday. We have to change the image. -- Janus Landrum

We are a very heirarchical place -- David Bowen

An establishment area -- David Bowen

A young person with a new idea for a restaurant has a hard time in most areas -- David Bowen

i have heard that many new businesses, particularly restaraunts, are popping up. -- Jack Beall

There are places. I live in Royal Oak, and that is one such place. -- David Bowen

Why can't we all just get along? -- Bernard Chevalier

But if Granholm has her way and does her "singles" plan, that could hurt the University and other businesses. -- Janus Landrum

i believe that many open personal business because it is an opportunity to live the lifestyle of their choice...without having to report to a boss or follow someone else's way of doing things -- Melissa Merkau

HaHa -- Azure Robertson

Detroit is boring -- Azure Robertson

Greektown is nice. -- David Bowen

But we don't have a large enough are -- David Bowen

All of our experiential lifestyle areas are small, compared to Seattle or Austin -- David Bowen

it is nice, but boring none the less. i am looking for more -- Azure Robertson

Bowen, what do you mean by young people having a hard time starting businesses? -- Tiffany Russell

We wait for someone esle to do it -- David Bowen

Who is escited about restaurants around here? -- David Bowen

Small bookstores with a focus? -- David Bowen

opening one's own business is still the American dream. I can' t imagine anything more gratifying than self-employment (being ones own boss) -- Jack Beall

i just stayed at the renaissance center, went to adiamos and saw cirque dsoiel and the auto show detroit can be fun -- Kathleen Asselin

Jack, TRUE! -- Tiffany Russell

did anyone mention that the weather sucks here too? -- Jack Beall

Minnesota attracts young people - Minneapolis is one of Florida;'s hot spots -- David Bowen

Jack my husband owns his own business IT IS HARD -- Kathleen Asselin

Must be legit reasons for the huge exodus out of Detroit. I'm a native Detroiter. I think most Detroiters have a love/hate relationship going on with the city. -- Kay Russell

I would love to have my own business. -- Janus Landrum

How do they get financing to start? Not everyone wants to take a chance like that? I think that is unfair. -- Janus Landrum

red lobster or bust! -- Melissa Merkau

A chain, though - not the experiential life style. Do it your own way. That's what the young creative people are looking for, and talk to that chef -- David Bowen

If you are a programmer, for example. -- David Bowen

i really am not trying to knock detroit. I do like it here been here almost my whole life. it just does not have what i am loking for to give me that quality of life that i desire -- Azure Robertson

david - there are a lot of interesting restaurants in st clair county -- Melissa Merkau

I live in Detroit, and I don't patronize downtown, so that tell me a lot. Don't be so hard on Detroit as mentioned earlier. -- Bernard Chevalier

Kathleen, do you think maybe if detroit upgraded it's look and buildings that would help? Because it's true that they are lots of things happening, and yet it doesn't seem as though it is.... perhaps advertising is lacking? -- Tiffany Russell

Hi Kathy, -- Gianna Bacher

Kathy, sounds like a fun night out, it just shows you if you "open your mind to the possibilites out there, Detroit is not as boring as it seems.--I mean, Detroit boring? so is Novi! It all depends on what you are looking to experience I guess. -- Gianna Bacher

Yeah, Jack that is true sometimes, but that is why everyone flocks to Florida and it is about to break off. Ha-Ha. -- Janus Landrum

The same here Azure, I love this ciy, but time to move on.... -- Kay Russell

i personally like eastern market -- Melissa Merkau

Detroit has a very vibrant musical and art community. and what is quite unique to detroit, is it is the biggest small town you will ever live in. It is the only city that you can be in a restaurant, or a bar and have coporate execs, artists, students and professionals conversing and exchaning ideas. You don't get this is chicago, or new york, bus drivers hand with bus drivers and wallstreet hangs w/there crew. -- Gianna Bacher

on the nosey!-Gianna -- Azure Robertson

OK, the young creative poeple that the high-tech employers doi not want chains - they want someone to do something new and personal - an original vision -- David Bowen

Detroit is a really large topic, it has it's nice points but it still needs a lot of work -- Rachael Kuffa

It's not that we are completely lacking here, but that we do not have a cticial mass -- David Bowen

people can start their own business on a smaller scale as well. I have a friend whos mom is retired and she started making and selling her own jewelry, she is doing very well. I myself started my own summer camps for kids, and i run them my way...it is very rewarding...bu i don't think these things can afford me the lifestyle i want alone. -- Jack Beall

gianna, as always i love your ideas i agree detroit is the biggest small town you'll every see -- Kathleen Asselin

doing something new and personal is not only taking a risk financially...but personally as well -- Melissa Merkau

Yes -- David Bowen

What happens in Detroit affects the entire State, good or bad. -- Bernard Chevalier

True -- David Bowen

So that is what Florida finds that the young creative people are after -- David Bowen

Yes, but it seems that the independent owners don't always have as much of a chance as the chains do. -- Janus Landrum

Right - this is an area that is not as open to new and experimental things -- David Bowen

Someone mentioned Governor Granholm's "cool cities -- David Bowen

i find it ironic that Florida shows expertise in what the young want...i've been there (A LOT) and i don't see a lot of young people...in fact quite the opposite -- Jack Beall

HA HA -- Jack Beall shout

Not Florida the state - Riuchard Flroida the author -- David Bowen

I was joking -- Jack Beall shout

I did, because I am not sure about that idea. -- Janus Landrum

Yeah, I think thats in a majority of areas nationwide - chains goobling the independents -- Tiffany Russell

if we dont frequent the independant ones as often as we frequent the chains they go under, so ultimately it is up to us! -- Azure Robertson

That is a crime. -- Janus Landrum

could it be because michigan has a great deal of retirees living here and for the most part, the older one gets, the less they are willing to change -- Melissa Merkau

Well, someone mentioned Granholm's "cool cities" idea -- David Bowen

yes azure, very true -- Tiffany Russell

That is following Richard Florida -- David Bowen

Anyone heard of "cool cities"? -- David Bowen

what is the cool cities idea? -- Melissa Merkau

We need cool cities (not cold) -- David Bowen

nope, but i am interested...tell me more -- Jack Beall Excellent point

bowen, no -- Tiffany Russell

Grqanholm wants to attract singles, but then what happens to your schools, and other businesses. Unless it is a hip club or something they like, the uncool would go under. -- Janus Landrum

yes -- Azure Robertson

ah, i see, lol -- Tiffany Russell

Yes, Royal Oak is "cool" (too small to be effectifve) - the singles, we hope, will support the shcools -- David Bowen

But maybe not -- David Bowen

I am not a businesswoman, but I must admit there hasn't been a whole lot of movement towards emerging markets and tapping the talent right here. Our creative centers are being overlooked. WSU is carnegie II research institute, that is pretty good. You have the center for creative studies, which brings the brightest, illustrators, designers into the area. We have excellent engineers and industrial designers. We are still perceived as an automotive town, and that is a dying industry. -- Gianna Bacher

so how can granholm make detrtoit cool? -- Kathleen Asselin

Well, the point is that if Detroit were cool, that would be a magnet -- David Bowen

Royal Oak is also considered preppier don't you think. -- Janus Landrum

singles usually are the ones spending money on things like fashion, food, and furniture -- Jack Beall

Oh yes they do -- David Bowen

Maybe not furniture -- David Bowen

I haven't been to ferndale in awhile, but I've heard that royal oak is spreading downwards to ferndale...is that true? -- Tiffany Russell

Yes -- David Bowen

Detroit is the population center that could make a difference -- David Bowen

People aren't going to move to MI because of Royal Oak, cool as it is -- David Bowen

yes furniture! i just bought a brand new living room set:) LOL -- Azure Robertson

Ferndale has built up quite a bit and has a lot of "cool" spots. -- Janus Landrum

i personally do not frequent royal oak, birmingham, etc...simply because they charge for parking...and i don't believe i should be charged for spending my money there -- Melissa Merkau

But Royal Oak is cool -- David Bowen

Birmingham is upper-class, not the same type of diversity and buzz going on there -- David Bowen

Then someone needs to get Detroit to a place with management that can change it into a cool place. -- Janus Landrum

Tiffany, I think so. I've heard that Ferndale is less expensive, but offers the same creative vibe. -- Kay Russell

Soemwhat -- David Bowen

i work in Rochester, and i find that city to actually be quite "cool". They have a nice downtown, a couple performing arts theatres, a cool village mall, etc. -- Jack Beall

Yes, but again small -- David Bowen

david i am not sure i understood your comment regarding detroit as a populations center there doesnot seem to be alot of people down town -- Kathleen Asselin

i like royal oak and ferndale -- Azure Robertson

OK, when Richard Florida came to the Detroit area last year, he went through what we have in this area -- David Bowen

If we could get our act togetrher, we could be like Chicago -- David Bowen

A place where people go rather than where they leave from -- David Bowen

When there are things like sporting events, etc. there are a ton of people down there. Even during the day there are people down there. -- Janus Landrum

Sporitng event sare not really participatory - old style - big establishments -- David Bowen

Not small cooll places -- David Bowen

Bowen, what do you feel the city needs? -- Tiffany Russell

It's not just the city - it's the region. -- David Bowen

What Flroida said is that we have to start acting together -- David Bowen

---that would require regional transit, lots of condos and some progressive thinking towards race -- Gianna Bacher

yeah if we can get our act together -- Rachael Kuffa

in order to be like other cool cities...wouldn't something have to be done with our transportation services? -- Melissa Merkau

Yes -- David Bowen

there are a lot of small suburbs that are charming milford mt clemens, ect. but i dont think we will attract single here because of them -- Kathleen Asselin

Right - too small -- David Bowen

Exactly! -- Janus Landrum

is that what Florida thinks? -- Melissa Merkau

Yes -- David Bowen

i like marine city, st. clair, richmond....they are all quaint... -- Melissa Merkau

Quaint helps some - diversity -- David Bowen

i loved chicago i could walk to any ethnic restaurant i could walk to theaters and grocery stores parks, ect.l it afforded me a great life style -- Kathleen Asselin

That's it! -- David Bowen

would it be possible to upgrade the transportation being the financial status Detroit is currently in? -- Melissa Merkau

Not just transport - act together -- David Bowen

Sorry to say, but what detroit needs, will not happen over night; government must be on same page. -- Bernard Chevalier

Ann Arbor is nice too -- Kay Russell

Small- but Florida says Ann Arobor would have to be part of the region -- David Bowen

after the zoo episode....i cannot see detroit coming together? maybe with new leadership? -- Melissa Merkau

Maybe Roger Penske can help with the revitalization of Detroit and the surrounding region. -- Janus Landrum

more shopping would help detroit. clubs and bars only go so far -- Azure Robertson

Well, the city and suburbs are split here -- David Bowen

Bus service - cannot get that together -- David Bowen

Water board - can't get that together -- David Bowen

Ann Arbor could be a part of it, but transportation would have to be worked on. -- Janus Landrum

i dont casinos helped detrtoit -- Kathleen Asselin

Somewhat, but they are not the participatory life style -- David Bowen

Big Business is nto what the young creative people locate for -- David Bowen

The answer is diversity. -- Bernard Chevalier

Yes - but diversity on many levels -- David Bowen

casinos just bring bad things -- Azure Robertson

i meant to say i dont think casinos helped but actually hurt detroit -- Kathleen Asselin

But they are not part of the participatory lifesstyle -- David Bowen

oh -- Azure Robertson

I agree completely -- Bernard Chevalier

Well, this is the point I wanted to get to -- David Bowen

The economic importance of creativity -- David Bowen

it seems as if the casinos drain the residents of money more so than attracting non-residents in to spend money to uplift the city -- Tiffany Russell

We need small clubs, small nice restaurants, more ethnicity. We have Motwn, other festivals, it needs to come together. -- Janus Landrum

Yes - Motown is part -- David Bowen

We have a diverse environemnt - many types of wildlife, urban relcamation successes -- David Bowen

ethnicity for sure! -- Azure Robertson

Yes, but culturally also -- David Bowen

So creativity is important for econmic growth today -- David Bowen

absolutely -- Azure Robertson

definitely -- Melissa Merkau

our history (motown,ect) could help attract people -- Kathleen Asselin

Yes -- David Bowen

ditto -- Kathleen Asselin

Yes -- Janus Landrum

our ethnicity could help -- Melissa Merkau

Yes, but there is a BIG divide between the city and the suburbs -- David Bowen

Plus, the big three is the past has been beneficial, but the downsizing has affected many. -- Bernard Chevalier

When I have asked people how to overcome the split between the citiy and the subu5bs, they get quiet -- David Bowen

it's often overlooked though...such as the rolling stones being the main act at the football game, rather than the motown acts (which were openers) -- Tiffany Russell

Yes, because look at Greektown, Mexican Village and the Arab community in Dearborn, plus when the African-American Festival is on. Things like this in Detroit would be great. -- Janus Landrum

that is why a lot of people are leaving michigan - their jobs have been cut in the auto industry and they have no choice but to leave -- Melissa Merkau

Yes - we are losing young people - their numbers are actually decreasing, especially college-educated young people -- David Bowen

Yes, but a lot of people from the city are the ones who have come to the suburbs, so they are copping out. -- Janus Landrum

i think detroit needs to realize that it can't always fall back on the auto industry. it is not going to be here forever. we need to diversify-open things up -- Azure Robertson

i am quiet because i am not sure if it is possible to unite the city and the suburbs -- Melissa Merkau

Right -- David Bowen

I think jobs are being cut every where though -- Rachael Kuffa

No, there are places that are groiwng -- David Bowen

i mean the economy overall is in a bad state -- Rachael Kuffa

i believe education and job training to different industries will help detroit and michigan -- Kathleen Asselin

Michigan is the worst, per the statistics. -- Janus Landrum

We as people can't get past black and white in this State. -- Bernard Chevalier

That is a big part of it, but not all, Bernard -- David Bowen

Well, this part was to be about Creativity and economic development, with Detroit as a side issue -- David Bowen

Very true Bernard, and that is a shame, but sometimes I think it is an excuse too. -- Janus Landrum

in general it hink you are right bernard. but i can tell you that the younger generation is opening up. -- Azure Robertson

OK, folks, I am OK with leaving off now. We got through everything. What did you think? -- David Bowen

True Janus -- Bernard Chevalier

Was this interesting? -- David Bowen

I dont think that it's only Detroit that is experiencing an exodus. People seem to be relocating out of the US period. Moving to Canada, Latin America, Europe, etc . -- Kay Russell -- Kay Russell

No - Seattle, Atlanta, Sanb Fan, New York, Boston - they are growing -- David Bowen

the ironic thing that i see in terms of Detroit, is the potential of the waterfront. I cannot believe this has not been tapped into more...it would seem so easy to plant a center of culture, and excitement right there....oh did i mention the weather is bad here? -- Jack Beall

i think this was a good way to get to know people.. it did move sort of fast -- Rachael Kuffa

it was an interesting experiecne -- Kathleen Asselin

i liked this. Like i said earlier. i think if this was a weekly or bi-weekly part of the course it would really be nice. -- Azure Robertson

Best one i have ever participated in! -- Melissa Merkau

but i enjoyed it.. i would like to do it again.. maybe make it optional -- Rachael Kuffa

--this was great Dr. Bowen, and good point Kay, there are a lot of expartriots out there. -- Gianna Bacher

Yes -- Bernard Chevalier

are we going to vote -- Rachael Kuffa

On what? -- David Bowen

This was great Dr. Bowen. I would like to do this again. -- Janus Landrum

I would like to do this again as well -- Tiffany Russell Excellent point

There is a huge need for economic creativity here, and it begins with the youth. If the younger generations, are not receiving the proper education, role models, and guidance, you have a situation that perpetuates. A stagnation that is occuring and the reason why people are leaving is not because they want to, it is because the city does not offer the environment. Schools, jobs, city services, etc... It is wonderful that their are corporate types investing in our city. I enjoy being able to see a ball game at Comerica in my nice suite. but this is not helping the residence of the city! It does not increase my property value, it is not bringing back more city services. It is not pumping money into the communities south of 8 mile. -- Gianna Bacher

i felt this was a great way to conduct class. thank you for your patience in helping get me on the unchat sight. talk to you soon. -- Jack Beall

this was a GREAT unchat!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! -- Melissa Merkau

Yes, very informative, I enjoyed it. -- Kay Russell

did we already vote on prof reading papers? -- Rachael Kuffa

No -- David Bowen

Vote taken on reading each others' papers: tie vote

Class winding down

see you all on the forum next week!!!!! -- Melissa Merkau

Everyone enjoy Winter Break and the rest of the weekend! -- Janus Landrum shout

Goodbye all! -- Bernard Chevalier

Have a great break everyone! -- Tiffany Russell

nice to CHAT with all of you classmates as well. hope you all are doing ok on your requirements for this course. In case some of you are looking for a 4th book, I would recommend GUTS -- Jack Beall

bye everybody! Hi Ho Hi Ho off to work I go -- Azure Robertson

over and out -- Melissa Merkau

jack - too cool.....i have personally met bob lutz and worked with him as well -- Melissa Merkau

great time see ya -- Kathleen Asselin

peace out. word to your mother, catch you on the down low, over and out, sianara, good bye, orvoia' -- Jack Beall shout

i am going to the library today....i may just borrow the book myself -- Melissa Merkau

Bye Tiff, ttys. By e everyone, have a great weekend!!!!!!!!!!! -- Kay Russell

LOL Jack -- Kay Russell

lol jack -- Tiffany Russell

bye mom -- Tiffany Russell

bye everyone -- Rachael Kuffa

you're killin me jack! -- Melissa Merkau

Bye Tiff:) -- Kay Russell

bye all! -- Tiffany Russell