Chat October 4 started, Mon Oct 04 16:40:08 EDT 2004
Laura - you really there. It's early! -- David Bowen speak
Yes, I had to come to the Library -- Laura Miller Moderator comment:
OK, well I'm eating a sandwich. I'll check in every once in a while. -- David Bowen speak
okay, enjoy your sandwich -- Laura Miller Moderator comment:
Economy Improves, but Oil Prices Carry Risk, this is what Greg Ip and Neil King Jr. in Washington D. C. and Lee Hawkins Jr. in Detroit says. This article was posted in the Wall Street Journal dated Monday October 4th 2004 -- Ronald Creswell shout
That's a risk to the economy? With the election so close, it could also be a risk for the candidates - what do you say you can do about oil prices? -- David Bowen speak
Do you think the general public understands that we are probably not going to find a lot more oil in the US? I mean, some will find enough to get nice and rich, but probably not enough to solve our problem. The US needs a LOT of oil. -- David Bowen speak
I was told that the US had it's own supply of oil, not as large as Saudi Arabia, but I always wondered, why don't the US have its own oil fields? -- Laura Miller Moderator comment:
We do, we do. We just use a lot more than we pump, so we have to import. The US has been retty much explored, pumped, and emptied out. -- David Bowen speak
With the price of oil steady going up, there is going to be a disasterous outcome. We do not need any more major problems right now. -- Laura Miller Moderator comment:
Good - that's what the course is about.. What are we going to do? -- David Bowen speak
Hi, Jane. I'm all thumbs tonight - spelling mistakes left and right. -- David Bowen speak
Hello everyone. -- Jane Sutherland Moderator comment:
By the way, there will be a transcript of the chat tonight - I will put it on the course web site. -- David Bowen speak
I just hope I don't crash tonight...my DSL line isn't working so I'm using the ol' dial up method! -- Jane Sutherland Moderator comment:
I would like to see someone come up with a new fuel that does not pollute the air or damage the motor of these new cars. I often wonder what happened to the idea of people driving in space by the year 2000. -- Laura Miller Moderator comment:
That's even more energy! -- David Bowen speak
Perhaps, the slowing down [without taking away the opportunity for free enterprise to flurish] of unviable long-term economies could help lower the present $50.12 a-barrel oil price. Bhushan Bahree wrote that the prime force behind the run-up in oil prices, soaring demand, is a product of the strongest global economic growth in a generation -- Ronald Creswell shout
Hello Jane, did you have problems getting on? -- Laura Miller Moderator comment:
I think this works pretty well with a modem. If it crashes, just redial without doing anything else. No Back button, no nothing. -- David Bowen speak
Hi Laura, -- Jane Sutherland Moderator comment:
no I didn't have that much of a problem...my cable modem is acting funny... -- Jane Sutherland Moderator comment:
Ron - slowing down the economy means that we all are poorer. -- David Bowen speak
Professor Bowen, what about making vehicles with the idea of the hover-car in mind. -- Laura Miller Moderator comment:
Lots of energy. All that energy to stay up, but not going anywhere. -- David Bowen speak
Very inefficient. Are you thinking maybe congestion would be less? -- David Bowen speak
when it snows outside can we do our classes like this? :) -- Jane Sutherland Moderator comment:
That's an idea. We'll see how it goes tonight. How would I let everyone know? -- David Bowen speak
Okay, I see we need to uses less energy and maybe a lighter fuel -- Laura Miller Moderator comment:
Even the world will run short of oil sometime in the next 30 to 50 years. I may not be around - but you guys are younger than me. -- David Bowen speak
When the weather is nasty...maybe just an e-mail offering the the choice of an internet class for the evenging rather than chancing a drive on the snow and ice? -- Jane Sutherland Moderator comment:
I think it has to be one way or the other. -- David Bowen speak
I think the oil business is just too much of a $$ making enterprise...they (oil cartels) drive up the prices as they see fit...I can't see the oil cartels giving up without a huge fight...President Bush and family made a ton of money on oil. -- Jane Sutherland Moderator comment:
For example, its like the argument that President Bush have made that the economy is picking up because a-lot more people are making $7 an hour. On the other hand, Senator Kerry believes that the lower and middle class need the oppportunity to make minimum of $15, 40 hours a-week, to live on. -- Ronald Creswell shout
Hey, this is a captialist economy. That's how it is SUPPOSED to work!!! -- David Bowen speak
In a market economy, making a profit is how you know you are doing something worthwhile. -- David Bowen speak
True...when you take a broad look at who is working and for what $$ amt....yeah America is working...but how is America living? -- Jane Sutherland Moderator comment:
great idea Jane -- Laura Miller Moderator comment:
About the online class? -- David Bowen speak
That sounds great to me, especially if I can't make it to work because of the bad weather. I would not want to come all the way from Mt. Clemens to come to class. -- Laura Miller -- David Bowen speak
But also, you realize, no snow days!!! -- David Bowen speak
Hey what are guy's talking about. I just got in -- Desmon Caldwell Moderator comment:
Can you scroll back? -- David Bowen speak
driving from Macomb Twp is a bear too! -- Jane Sutherland -- David Bowen speak
yes -- Desmon Caldwell Moderator comment:
Well, we were talking about oil prices, oil supplies and having class online if it snows. That would use less oil, too!!! -- David Bowen speak
Hey Desmon -- Laura Miller Moderator comment:
What's going on in today's discusssion -- Desmon Caldwell Moderator comment:
I'm still waiting - not 7 PM yet. -- David Bowen speak
One of th ways we might adjust to very high oil prices is doing more online. -- David Bowen speak
Certainly, one should work, the economy needs real growth, supported by reasonable worker earnings to sustain a viable livelihood, in the face of this present tight economy. Giving company bonuses and incentives to ship their business overseas want do it. We need here in America safeguards and stronger support for companies that keeps their industry viable in the U. S... -- Ronald Creswell shout
Yes it is 7pm right now -- Desmon Caldwell Moderator comment:
OK, here goes. -- David Bowen speak
Hello, everyone. -- David Bowen speak
Next week, back in Cohn at 6, right? -- David Bowen speak
Is everyone working on their occupancy and gas mileage data? -- David Bowen speak
yes back at Cohn -- Jane Sutherland Moderator comment:
That is a great idea Professor -- Laura Miller Moderator comment:
????? Laura? -- David Bowen speak
What's a great idea? -- David Bowen speak
I'm finding I'm doing a lot of driving by myself...starting to feel a little guilty...wasting fuel like that. -- Jane Sutherland Moderator comment:
yes -- Desmon Caldwell Moderator comment:
Yes -- Laura Miller Moderator comment:
Next week, bring your Research Portfolios. -- David Bowen speak
What about those emails about research sources? Most of you aren't writing them. -- David Bowen speak
What's going on there? -- David Bowen speak
I do a lot of driving by myself also -- Laura Miller Moderator comment:
We ALL drive a lot by ourselves. That is one point in the book - we should use vehicles appropriate to our prupose at the time. -- David Bowen speak
I've been trying to send them from work...I think they go through and then I get an error message saying that I can't send those types of e-mails...list servers....so I've been trying to send from home. -- Jane Sutherland Moderator comment:
I am looking at the sites that individuals have showed great approval in -- Laura Miller Moderator comment:
OK, some of th news stories - Nigeria is now a cause of higher prices. -- David Bowen speak
Alos, OPEC will become more important as other oil fields are used up. -- David Bowen speak
Why ? -- Desmon Caldwell Moderator comment:
Why Nigeria? Rebels threaten to shoot people -- David Bowen speak
Me too Jane.. -- Laura Miller Moderator comment:
I know professor, I read once where some African Countries have large quantities of oil. -- Laura Miller Moderator comment:
Some on the western coast of Africa. But not large enough to solve our problem in the next 20 - 30 years. -- David Bowen speak
Oh! -- Desmon Caldwell Moderator comment:
well sure..they're sitting on most of the world's oil field. -- Jane Sutherland Moderator comment:
The Middle East is sitting on it, you mean. Yes. -- David Bowen speak
I meant the OPEC nations not Africa -- Jane Sutherland Moderator comment:
Another news story - Russia plans to approve th Kyoto treaty on global warming. That will put it into effect. -- David Bowen speak
So in all honesty will this war solve oil prices or is it just an excuse to keep the people from knowing what is really going on -- Laura Miller Moderator comment:
The war in Iraq? -- David Bowen speak
yes -- Laura Miller Moderator comment:
Who cares....we have Iraq oils now Yeah!!!! -- Desmon Caldwell Moderator comment:
Well, so far it hasn't done very much for us. But they think that's why we're there, and that's one reason they are resisting us. It's VERY expensive oil for us. -- David Bowen speak
Desmon, now is that nice? -- Laura Miller Moderator comment:
Well the Kyoto treaty is a first step! I applaud them for that....at least -- Jane Sutherland Moderator comment:
The US withdrew its signature, so it won't apply to us. -- David Bowen speak
Yes, the course of America's economy needs if it entails real progress, security, growth, and both fundamental and flexible solution to problems, like the high rise of foreign oil, in order to continue to remain full speed ahead -- Ronald Creswell shout
Hi, Prof. Bowen, and classmate, I'm glad to me in on the unchat with everybody. -- Fred Lindsey shout
We will always use lots of foreign oil- we don't have enough of our own. -- David Bowen speak
Get used to imported oil. We can't find what's not there. -- David Bowen speak
Your late Lindsey -- Desmon Caldwell shout
The war in Iraq was planned by immature Americans that are in power but for our future it was good for the resources(oil) -- Desmon Caldwell Moderator comment:
No, it's bad. As an oil investment, it's very poor. $200 billion for a little bit. -- David Bowen speak
There has to be a global effort...California is trying some very agressive ideas toward curbing the harmful effects...but they can't win the "war" alone. -- Jane Sutherland Moderator comment:
OK, that's the news stories. -- David Bowen speak
I know your in Chicago having a very nice time Dr. Bowen but tonight is Monday night football!!! -- Desmon Caldwell shout
A little bit about the writing. I confused people on the topic. -- David Bowen speak
There were some problems with organization, and with the mechanical part of writing - spelling, grammar. -- David Bowen speak
Who cares Desmon Kansas City is 0 and 3 -- Jane Sutherland Moderator comment:
All right I, here you dude -- Fred Lindsey Moderator comment:
Like hear not here :-) -- David Bowen speak
We will spend some time on writing. -- David Bowen speak
I wasn't able to go and pick up my paper...will you be bringing them to class next Monday? -- Jane Sutherland -- David Bowen speak
OK -- David Bowen speak
Over the past 140 years, forest clearing and fossil-fuel burning have pushed up the atmospher's CO2 level -- Laura Miller -- David Bowen speak
Yes - reforestation is one way of dealing with global warming. -- David Bowen speak
Replanting the trees. -- David Bowen speak
Until the U S A find a large oil deposit , America will use oil from Arab nations. -- Fred Lindsey shout
Jane, there going to be 0 adn 4 but it's still good to watch a good game though plus Deion Sanders will be playing -- Desmon Caldwell -- David Bowen speak
Ok, basic global warmng. -- David Bowen speak
ok Desmon :) -- Jane Sutherland Moderator comment:
I'm going to stop passing through this football stuff! -- David Bowen speak
CO2 and other greenhouse gases trap heat energy close to the earth. -- David Bowen speak
A little bit about science. -- David Bowen speak
O.K Global warming is bad for the environment -- Desmon Caldwell Moderator comment:
Science is a very open dialog. -- David Bowen speak
You should expect disagreement from scientists. However, if those who deny global warming are a very small minority, then you should be careful -- David Bowen speak
My gut feeling is the global warming situation is bit overblown. -- Fred Lindsey -- David Bowen speak
No, it is more serious than the public believes. -- David Bowen speak
Science says that animals and trees will die due to Global warming -- Desmon Caldwell Moderator comment:
The problem in Nigeria is that the International community, as well as OPEC, and along with the major susidaries that helps pumps oil out of that country, does not have any interest to mediate conflicts, using oil as a leverage. Some of the perpetuators of the conflict works with the local oil compaines and have interconnected relationship with the government in both in northern Muslim Nigeria, and in Southern mostly Christian and Indigenous Nigeria. -- Ronald Creswell shout
Well, some of the effects can be disastrous. The problem is we don't know exactly what will happen. -- David Bowen speak
Hey Ron, we were off of Nigeria!!! -- David Bowen speak
The science of global warming is not exact. -- David Bowen speak
How do you know Ron -- Desmon Caldwell Moderator comment:
When they say they are going to shoot at oil workers, the oil workers get VERY nervous. In Saudi Arabia, they are attacked and killed. Just for a job - a good job, but only a job. -- David Bowen speak
Then whay [DB: we?]can halt global warming in the years to come -- Fred Lindsey shout
I feel that with the distroying of the rainforest using the trees for burning wood will destroy the consetration of carborn dioxide in the atmosphere. -- Laura Miller Moderator comment:
Hey look, this shouting isn't working. Fred, can you explain what you meant? -- David Bowen speak
Neither are the news casters for the weather-David -- Desmon Caldwell Moderator comment:
Sorry about the bad spelling. -- Fred Lindsey shout
I understand, Dr. Bowen. I going to follow-up on Laura's recent comment. -- Ronald Creswell shout
What do you mean,Desmon? I agree it is not perfect. -- David Bowen speak
I'm all for it because it is evolution and biology those types of events has to happen -- Desmon Caldwell Moderator comment:
Evolution will not work for plants and animals - much too slow. They will die if the changes are too big. -- David Bowen speak
What do you think Mount St. Helen's erruption will play on the rise of Oil prices ? -- Laura Miller Moderator comment:
Everybody has a job to do....just let the chipd fall where they lay -- Desmon Caldwell -- Desmon Caldwell Moderator comment:
But dying for your job? Come on - people quit. -- David Bowen speak
Let's get real here. -- David Bowen speak
When they start shooting, most of us leave. -- David Bowen speak
None here in michigan but in Washington the price just mught go up because people are probalbly going to leave. -- Desmon Caldwell Moderator comment:
No, the oil workers in Nigeria are going to leave., -- David Bowen speak
Then no Nigerian oil. Therefore prices go up. -- David Bowen speak
It isn't worth your life. -- Jane Sutherland Moderator comment:
THat's in Saudi not in America jack -- Desmon Caldwell Moderator comment:
Yes, oil workers are attacked in Saudi Arabia regularly. They live in armed compounds. -- David Bowen speak
Where are the workers going to go -- Desmon Caldwell Moderator comment:
The oil experts are foreigners. They go home. -- David Bowen speak
With the cost of repairing the damage in Floriida which is getting into the billions of dollars, I feel that the economy will suffer even more. -- Laura Miller Moderator comment:
Yes, when oil experts are attacked, they leave and find something else to do. Less oil, prices go up. So people get nervous when others TALK about shooting oil workers. -- David Bowen speak
What if it changes the climate and cause a catostrophic affect? -- Laura Miller Moderator comment:
We are not sure what is going to happen. -- David Bowen speak
Glabal warming is predicted by computer models. There are three primary models, They disagree. So we are not sure what is going on, even if the general treands agree. -- David Bowen speak
because there won't be anyone to work the oil fields. -- Jane Sutherland Moderator comment:
Yup -- David Bowen speak
The oil experts want make any money to take care of the house hold -- Desmon Caldwell Moderator comment:
Oil prices shouldn't be affective, unless climate changes so rapidly that it present a catastrophic condition disrupting the major and minor oil producers pummings and deliveriesof petroleum. -- Ronald Creswell shout
There's lots of work for oil experts -- David Bowen speak
Let's not use the the word (IF) becasue if was a fif ....... ya no what -- Desmon Caldwell Moderator comment:
????? -- David Bowen speak
but the price of oil changes so rapidly...just the hint of a problem and we're paying $3 for gas -- Jane Sutherland Moderator comment:
The system is stretched tight. -- David Bowen speak
They need to work with some ak-47 or have some protection -- Desmon Caldwell Moderator comment:
Desmon - THEY JUST QUIT!!! -- David Bowen speak
You've got another great job to go to - why take a risk? -- David Bowen speak
you're right Laura... -- Jane Sutherland Moderator comment:
OK, I want to say something more about global warming here, Gimme a chance. -- David Bowen speak
The only problem is that quite of few of them don't have another great job to go to... -- Jane Sutherland Moderator comment:
Oil experts do have other great jobs. The natives, no. But if the foreign oil experts leave, the production drops. -- David Bowen speak
OK, global warming -- David Bowen speak
What we know is mostly from computer models. -- David Bowen speak
The computer models disagree, but agree on the trends. -- David Bowen speak
The trends show about 2 degrees waqrming to now, from "anthropogenic" causes - those caused by humans. -- David Bowen speak
Russia recently sign their half of the Kyoto Treaty. What's in stake for the U. S.? -- Ronald Creswell shout
It is also very hard to make a computer model that does NOT show global warming. -- David Bowen speak
There are about 3000 climate scientists working on this, and perhaps 3 or 5 who disagree. That's a pretty strong consensus. -- David Bowen speak
Hey Ronald were back on Global warming O.K. -- Desmon Caldwell Moderator comment:
Thanks, Desmon. -- David Bowen speak
Global warming is predicted to speed up. -- David Bowen speak
so why isn't the public up in arms about global warming? -- Jane Sutherland -- David Bowen speak
The Kyoto Treaty, deals with Global warming. -- Ronald Creswell shout
Well, that amount of warming doesn't sound like much. -- David Bowen speak
Are their voices being quited because of the huge amount of revenue oil brings in for companies? -- Jane Sutherland Moderator comment:
Part of it is that the oil companies are trying to spread doubt. -- David Bowen speak
O.K. Ron -- Desmon Caldwell shout
Those cliomate scientist never gets the weather right so how can I believe there data -- Desmon Caldwell Moderator comment:
That's another point that is made. -- David Bowen speak
But all that we know says that global warming is happening. -- David Bowen speak
Is everybody having fun on this cold night. -- Desmon Caldwell shout
I think it's kind of like betting against the house at this point - know what I mean? -- David Bowen speak
Well all you have to do is step off a plane in the L.A area...with the amount of smog that city has it is a wonder they don't have their own little global warming. -- Jane Sutherland Moderator comment:
Here are some of the ffects that people think might be going on RIGHT NOW -- David Bowen speak
Rising oceans. Flooding wetlands, which produce the juvenile forms for a lot of our food. -- David Bowen speak
Spring coming earlier. May be good for Michigan, but will also mean disruption. -- David Bowen speak
It's the candle on the cake that makes this treaty in scope an important issue. Yet I can go in-depth about Global warming at anytime and at any place. -- Ronald Creswell shout
Because of the tremendous rain falls that India had last year, their oil prices rose to at least 6 percent, this is taking its toll on India's economy -- Laura Miller Moderator comment:
One thing that happens is that species help each other breed - pollinationa dn all of that. -- David Bowen speak
Some speices breed by date, some by temperature. -- David Bowen speak
So the working together can be disrupted. Ecologist think this is already happening now. -- David Bowen speak
so when we tamper with the temps we are wrecking their cycle? -- Jane Sutherland Moderator comment:
Bingo! -- David Bowen speak
So, does the global warming affects my back- I mean when it rains my body starts to hurt...is that one of the affects? -- Desmon Caldwell Moderator comment:
I don't know about that one. -- David Bowen speak
Future effects: -- David Bowen speak
Desmon you need a good Doctor -- Laura Miller Moderator comment:
Desertification - new deserts. -- David Bowen speak
Oh, and more unstableweather - maybe al of those hrricanes, although no one can be sure about any specific hurricane. -- David Bowen speak
That doctor is waiting for me at the bar...Ha -- Desmon Caldwell Moderator comment:
there are only so many species that can survive in desert like conditions. -- Jane Sutherland Moderator comment:
scary....! -- Jane Sutherland Moderator comment:
Some feel that we can adapt to global warming,b ecause it would be so expensive to control it. -- David Bowen speak
But we do not know what we will have to adapt to. -- David Bowen speak
Can desertification be attributed to the draughts in Africa? -- Jane Sutherland Moderator comment:
Well, this is in the future. -- David Bowen speak
Also, scientitsts are starting to feel that once global warming starts, we may not be able to turn it back, -- David Bowen speak
One example - snow reflects sunlight, cooling the earth covered by snow -- David Bowen speak
If the snow melts, the earth is dark and abosrvbs heat, causing even more heating. -- David Bowen speak
what is the world coming to there hurricanes, earthquakes, floods and even volcanos errupting all in the same 2 months -- Desmon Caldwell Moderator comment:
Yes, that is one of the possible consequences of global warming. -- David Bowen speak
Climate change brought on by rapid change in atmospheric conditions could shift growth with result of more greenry and insect infestation and create deserts. -- Ronald Creswell shout
It is happening awfully quickly,though -- David Bowen speak
But there are some things that could react quickly. -- David Bowen speak
or could it be the last DAYSSSSSSS -- Desmon Caldwell Moderator comment:
That's what I said Desmon, when was the last time a hurricane hit and then doubled back. -- Laura Miller Moderator comment:
That happens regularly. -- David Bowen speak
So once global warming really starts, we may not be able to turn it off, no matter what we do -- David Bowen speak
Areas that are heating-up, or melting down affects other places with significant consequences. -- Ronald Creswell shout
Yes Desmon....that too! -- Laura Miller Moderator comment:
OK, what can we do? -- David Bowen speak
One possibility is to use fuels with less carbon. -- David Bowen speak
Coal is mostly all carbon and goes to CO2 -- David Bowen speak
Petroleum is sort of 50-50 Carbon and Hydrogen, so we get some CO2 and some H2O -- David Bowen speak
Methane (natural gas) is ostly hydrogen, so we get very little CO2, or at least much less, -- David Bowen speak
That will put less carbon dioxide in the air right? -- Laura Miller Moderator comment:
Bingo! -- David Bowen speak
I don't know but 4 hurricanes in 6 weeeks... an earthquake in california last week and now the volcano.....Explain that Proffesor -- Desmon Caldwell Moderator comment:
Develop countrie could discourage undevelop countries to limit or to all together do away with deforrestation. -- Ronald Creswell shout
Again, global warming models predict unstalbe weather. -- David Bowen speak
Hurricanes draw energy from warm seawater. -- David Bowen speak
Could be global warming, could be a statistical fluke. -- David Bowen speak
Hello Prof. Bowen sorry I'm late I had to work later than expected -- Mignon Banks Moderator comment:
OK - there will be a transcript to review. -- David Bowen speak
but the hurricanes are developing in the Atlatic ocean -- Desmon Caldwell Moderator comment:
Yes, so? -- David Bowen speak
That's where there is a lot fo warm water. -- David Bowen speak
Hey Mignon -- Laura Miller Moderator comment:
So it could be global warming - warter a little bit warmer, hurricanes get a littl more energy. -- David Bowen speak
it's very cold water and not warm swamp dirty water -- Desmon Caldwell Moderator comment:
Cold for you maybe. -- David Bowen speak
But if the water is not warm enough, no hurricanes. -- David Bowen speak
Have you heard that hurricanes lose enegy over land? No warm water. -- David Bowen speak
Warm water is what causes them. The warmer the water, the more they like it. -- David Bowen speak
We are also talking here about the water off the west coast of Africa, near the equator. -- David Bowen speak
For ocean water, that's pretty warm. -- David Bowen speak
I feel that some of the hurricanes lye dormant deep under the sea and shifts in the earth's core cause them to crack. -- Laura Miller Moderator comment:
No, it's the surface water that gives them energy. -- David Bowen speak
Did you go to Micheal Jordan restaraunt dontown chicago if not you should go or the ESPN restaraunt they both have very good food and beer !!!!! -- Desmon Caldwell Moderator comment:
The phenomon that Florida has thus far experienced this year happened to Texas almost 140 years ago. These conditions comes and goes as the world turns. -- Ronald Creswell shout
Hey, I'm working, not out galivanting! -- David Bowen speak
OK, back to how we could control global warming -- David Bowen speak
I would love to live on and in the water by South Beach. Fl -- Desmon Caldwell Moderator comment:
That is warm water - it's nice. -- David Bowen speak
Thanks Desmon, I will remember that when I go to Chicago. -- Laura Miller Moderator comment:
One other wqay to control global warming is reforestation - we mentioned that earlier. -- David Bowen speak
Trees soak up lots of CO2 - it's a raw material they use. -- David Bowen speak
Another possibility is "sequestration" - putting the CO2 somewhere else, like punping it undergoround or into the deep ocean -- David Bowen speak
Chenoa say something to the class you were late... -- Desmon Caldwell shout
Is that why palm trees are so strong professor -- Laura Miller Moderator comment:
Hi I'm back...I lost the server... -- Jane Sutherland Moderator comment:
control methane gases? -- Chenoa Jarmon Moderator comment:
What's that, Chenoa? -- David Bowen speak
Yeah, sure so you can be holding on to one of those palm trees, yeah right -- Laura Miller Moderator comment:
Well, they are a lot stronger that non-woody plants. -- David Bowen speak
Sequestration - what is it? Anyone? -- David Bowen speak
How are you doo-ing, Ms. jarmon? -- Ronald Creswell shout
Come on - don't be silent now! -- David Bowen speak
Hey Ron, now I see why the limit shouting. -- David Bowen speak
I know tell her Ron !!!! -- Desmon Caldwell shout
well I know what Ped . -- Jane Sutherland Moderator comment:
??? -- David Bowen speak
Sequestration - putting the CO2 somewhere else, like deep underground or in the deep ocean. -- David Bowen speak
Sorry I don't know what sequestration, I've never heard of it -- Mignon Banks Moderator comment:
pedestrian -- Jane Sutherland Moderator comment:
OK, everyone read about sequestration? -- David Bowen speak
Me either..Repeat question -- Desmon Caldwell shout
It's a method of neutralizing the CO2 so it doesn't get into the atmosphere, and then it wouldn't cause global warming -- David Bowen speak
Methane gases are emitted from cows. If these gases are controlled, can methane gases be reduced our all together eliminated? -- Chenoa Jarmon Moderator comment:
I think it is to close, seal and dispose it in a safe place. -- Ronald Creswell shout
Many sources. Termites turn out to be a very big source - termites in the rain forest, particularly. -- David Bowen speak
OK, but sequestration won't work for cars or trucks. They are moving, can't carry those big pumps. -- David Bowen speak
Does everyone understand thatg point? -- David Bowen speak
hey we are forgetting about evolution -- Desmon Caldwell Moderator comment:
Evolution is too slow - takes millions of years. We don't have that long. -- David Bowen speak
Evolution will not help us. -- David Bowen speak
We can adapt quickly - warmer or cooler clothes, air conditioning or heating. But not plants and animals. No,evolution is too slow. -- David Bowen speak
yes..but what do we do about normal everyday methane from cows and the like...? How big an effect is that having? -- Jane Sutherland Moderator comment:
It is having an effect. But we need cows. -- David Bowen speak
My head is starting to hurt..... -- Desmon Caldwell Moderator comment:
We need a safe conceal an containment method, very short of sending those contaminents to outer space. -- Ronald Creswell shout
Along with your back? -- David Bowen speak
Do we still have many rain forests left? -- Laura Miller Moderator comment:
Yes. We are cutting them down quickly, but it is a very big area. -- David Bowen speak
Yes -- Desmon Caldwell Moderator comment:
They are depleting at a very rapid rate, because of "slash and burn,"techniques. -- Ronald Creswell shout
OK, got those points? Sequestration, but not for transportation sources of CO2. Evolution too slow to help us, takes millions of years. -- David Bowen speak
We need to cut and dig deeper into mother earth -- Desmon Caldwell Moderator comment:
For oil? -- David Bowen speak
Insurance companies arehaving to raise their rates to save up for larger claims due to golable warming. -- David Bowen speak
I thought our oil resources were depleting and besides that I thought we were trying to find an alternative -- Mignon Banks Moderator comment:
Well, here is a point about alternatives. -- David Bowen speak
There are many choices for alternatives. -- David Bowen speak
Let's suppose someone builds a plant for alternative "A" -- David Bowen speak
Costs about one billion $ -- David Bowen speak
But turns out that someone else builds a plant for an alternative that turns out to be better. -- David Bowen speak
I think that revolutionizing the vehicle engine and drive mechanism can allow transportation to redevelop and go even further in its use. -- Ronald Creswell shout
The first people lose the billion dollars. See the problem? Who is going to go first with their one billion dollars? -- David Bowen speak
That's why there is so many insurance frauds going on because they always going to raise a price, I hate insurance (to pay ) -- Desmon Caldwell Moderator comment:
But if global warming claims will go up, they have to have the money to pay them. See the problem? -- David Bowen speak
You can't the money with you -- Desmon Caldwell Moderator comment:
But you cn't pay out money you don't have. -- David Bowen speak
at what point do we stop harping about $$ and make the decision to have this planet viable in the future? -- Jane Sutherland Moderator comment:
We need the economy alos. That supports us. -- David Bowen speak
It seems as if companies would go through the government and do a small test on every model car with all the alternatives and then go full blown with the investment -- Mignon Banks Moderator comment:
But we don' find a lot of the issues until we get to make a lot. The car clearned up cities. Horse poop everywhere, before the car. -- David Bowen speak
Will we save money and the atmosphere in the long run if it tested first then we go into spending lots of money? -- Mignon Banks Moderator comment:
Islands in the Indian and Pacific Oceans want have a claim coming if that are all sumerged under water, because of water levels are raised and polar ice caps melts. -- Ronald Creswell shout
My stomach is hurting now....that's not a good idea Chenoa -- Desmon Caldwell Moderator comment:
after they have found the best alternative, that is -- Mignon Banks Moderator comment:
But we don't know until we try. -- David Bowen speak
Michigan benefitted from this - we bet on gasoline engines, others bet on steam. It took a long time to find out that gasoline was better. -- David Bowen speak
It seems like it would be something that the gov't would sponsor -- Mignon Banks Moderator comment:
But it takes mass production to discover many of the problems. -- David Bowen speak
I am sure with easch new model car, the inventor is thinkiing about a better fuel. Cars are made more for speed today and they can't drive faster if they are filled with heavy oil. -- Laura Miller Moderator comment:
No, just use gasoline. If we have it, it is reallymuch better. -- David Bowen speak
One other point is that we have the infrastructure - refining, transport, gasoline stations. All fo that would have to be replaced if we switched fuels. -- David Bowen speak
The conditions warrants a new approach to both solving global warming and depletion of oil. -- Ronald Creswell shout
If Gore was Pres, would we be any greener as a country -- Chenoa Jarmon Moderator comment:
I'm sure we had the technology for the hybrid engines some time ago...but why go with it...the book tried to say that it was us...the consumer that didn't want the change? -- Jane Sutherland Moderator comment:
Hell Yeah !!!!!! -- Desmon Caldwell shout
There has to be a demand. Chicken and egg. -- David Bowen speak
Maybe we need to discuss the infrastructure. It's very big and expensive,. Changing will be a long and expensive process. -- David Bowen speak
Are there any green automobile companies on the near horizon, or is everyone afraid to lose major bucks? -- Chenoa Jarmon Moderator comment:
Toyota, Honda, Ford, GM are all selling hybrids. -- David Bowen speak
Industries would suffer if his policy would have been allowed to be implemented. -- Ronald Creswell shout
They are much more expensive. -- David Bowen speak
What does flabbergasick mean? -- Desmon Caldwell Moderator comment:
????? -- David Bowen speak
I'd drive a hybrid car...if the government was strongly backing it and it wasn't looked at like a flaky "West Coast" idea...I bet more people would be interesting in saving in fuel costs and saving the environment as well. -- Jane Sutherland Moderator comment:
They cost about $4000 more. You will see from your gasoline measurements that you won't save that much, unless gas prices go VERY high. -- David Bowen speak
Yeah, I know, IWANT THAT NEW MUSTANG......OOOOps, got carried away -- Laura Miller Moderator comment:
Well, that's true also. We LOVE them muscle cars. -- David Bowen speak
flabbergast? Desmon -- Jane Sutherland Moderator comment:
Jane, do you get tax breaks for your car? -- Chenoa Jarmon Moderator comment:
Not enough to make a hybrid a good monetary investment. -- David Bowen speak
nope...I need to -- Jane Sutherland Moderator comment:
????? -- David Bowen speak
flabbergasik -- Desmon Caldwell Moderator comment:
OK, I'm not passing any more of that through. -- David Bowen speak
why so much more? -- Jane Sutherland Moderator comment:
Batteries. -- David Bowen speak
An auto company devoted to environmental changes -- Chenoa Jarmon Moderator comment:
O.K. -- Desmon Caldwell shout
Well, Toyota and Ford present themselves that way. -- David Bowen speak
GM now, also. -- David Bowen speak
Why so much expensive? Because we aren't ready to let go of the precious gas engine? -- Jane Sutherland Moderator comment:
Batteries. -- David Bowen speak
but by creating a faster engine, that means burning up more fuel right, regardless of how small or fast the engine is. -- Laura Miller Moderator comment:
Right. -- David Bowen speak
The oil companies are not going to sit still for that -- Jane Sutherland Moderator comment:
Well, some of them are starting to change. My daughter works for Exxon Mobil. They are starting to think about what they will do, at least the worker bees are. -- David Bowen speak
Is it because the batteries don't last as long or something -- Mignon Banks Moderator comment:
No, th e Escape hybrid has something like 350 batteries in it. -- David Bowen speak
They weigh a lot, too -- David Bowen speak
If you could change the price of your product at the drop of a hat....why would you give that up? -- Jane Sutherland Moderator comment:
???? -- David Bowen speak
not for gold of course oil and whatever man can discover -- Desmon Caldwell Moderator comment:
????? -- David Bowen speak
Improving fuel cells; recycleable fuel circulation within vehicles could be a good alternative to batteries, and many fill-ups at the gas station. -- Ronald Creswell shout
ugh...then what do we do with the spent batteries...another environmental hazard? -- Jane Sutherland Moderator comment:
we need to give mother Earth a break! -- Jane Sutherland Moderator comment:
Well - that's the alternative cars Riley is writing about!!! -- David Bowen speak
Maybe we should put daffy duck under the hood conected to the choker and every time we pull the choke button he has to paddle faster. -- Laura Miller Moderator comment:
WOW, so the larger the car, the more batteries you would need. How would the maintenance go with that. Do they continue to buy more batteries -- Mignon Banks Moderator comment:
Not much experience with maintenance yet. -- David Bowen speak
LOL!!!! -- Jane Sutherland Moderator comment:
????? -- David Bowen speak
I feel that if all of the rain forsest are destroyed by the cutting down of the trees. This will cause flooding to become more rapid leading from the forests to the cities. -- Laura Miller Moderator comment:
Yes, that's right - that's what happened in Haiti with the leas hurricane. -- David Bowen speak
Perhaps we take batteries and use them as recycled generators for developing countries to jump-start their infrastructure's hydroelectric and electricity service. -- Ronald Creswell shout
OK - changing technologies such as vehicles and/or fuel sources will be long and expensive. -- David Bowen speak
sounds like we're doomed. We need to be thinking seriously about alternatives. -- Jane Sutherland Moderator comment:
Bingo!!!! -- David Bowen speak
That's what the course is about . -- David Bowen speak
What are the alternatives, and how do we keep good old MI in the game? -- David Bowen speak
Is our capitalistic society to blame for greater technology and the need for speed? -- Chenoa Jarmon Moderator comment:
Iam not an anti-capitalsit. -- David Bowen speak
Capitalism has educated more people, made us healthier, living longer lives. It has to coexist with the environment. -- David Bowen speak
that's right -- Desmon Caldwell shout
Many of my response I raised tonight has touch on alternatives. These alternatives could be cost effective. -- Ronald Creswell shout
I would not trust anyone who says that the environment is everything, or who says that the economy is everything. We need them both. -- David Bowen speak
What alternatives -- Mignon Banks Moderator comment:
We have a lot of alternatives. We will go into them. That is the next sections of the book and the papers. -- David Bowen speak
Neither am I! -- Chenoa Jarmon Moderator comment:
???? -- David Bowen speak
Ok, some alternaqtives. -- David Bowen speak
I think you will find that most of yur cars are driven mostly empty most of the time. I know that is the case for me. -- David Bowen speak
commuter cars -- Chenoa Jarmon Moderator comment:
Yah -- David Bowen speak
A car that is no bigger than it needs to be for that trip. -- David Bowen speak
Riley goes a lot into how could they be designed so we would like them -- David Bowen speak
Yes I find that mine is driven mostly empty -- Jane Sutherland Moderator comment:
Most trips could be handled with a two-person vehicle. -- David Bowen speak
I usually only have son with me -- Mignon Banks Moderator comment:
I sure wish that I could find someone that lives near me that comes all the way down here to campus, I sure would comute. -- Laura Miller Moderator comment:
Vehicles could be designed, if industry didn't feel that buying a second or third vehicle is of the utmost of their profitable quest to success, with a recycled fuel system that repeats sending fuel to run the vehicle, with little depletion of energy done. -- Ronald Creswell shout
Well, the car has made our society so spread out that that is hard. -- David Bowen speak
Carpooling, I mean. -- David Bowen speak
I usually have my son with me too. -- Laura Miller Moderator comment:
Small like the Smart car or micro cars? -- Chenoa Jarmon Moderator comment:
Well, Riley has soe pretty small cars. -- David Bowen speak
But are the small cars safe? -- Jane Sutherland Moderator comment:
That's why we will take up smart highways later. -- David Bowen speak
Smart highways can make the roads safe for small cars. Very important point, Jane. -- David Bowen speak
I feel that not only am I using a lot of fuel, but I am putting a lot of miles on my car. -- Laura Miller Moderator comment:
One problem is, could we borrow big cars when we need them? -- David Bowen speak
bicycles -- Chenoa Jarmon Moderator comment:
The Earth's problems with global warming and oil depletion is going to make industries and nations consolidate their protective and fundamental needs more closely. -- Ronald Creswell shout
Yes, bicylces too, for some of us, or maybe motor-assisted bicycles, We would all be healthier. -- David Bowen speak
bikes just won't do when you commute 50 miles each way. -- Jane Sutherland Moderator comment:
Well, suppose gas goes to $10 per gallon. Who would be able to comjute? -- David Bowen speak
We are tlking about possbile B-I-G changes here. -- David Bowen speak
You'd have to make do -- Jane Sutherland Moderator comment:
You'd have to move closer to work,maybe. -- David Bowen speak
I find it hard to be objective in this subject because I am a copier tech that drivesmany miles a week all around detroit, with copier parts to tote -- Chenoa Jarmon Moderator comment:
BIG changes, right? -- David Bowen speak
I may start riding my bike in a minute, it may take me a few days to get to work but, I will work on that -- Laura Miller Moderator comment:
No, ti wll take us a while to work this out.l -- David Bowen speak
huge changes!!! -- Jane Sutherland Moderator comment:
Yes -- Chenoa Jarmon Moderator comment:
ha...a few days to get to work! -- Jane Sutherland Moderator comment:
I gots t o go peace out -- Desmon Caldwell Moderator comment:
I cringe when I see those Mini's on the road...just too little -- Jane Sutherland Moderator comment:
But when we get to smart highways, they can make the roads safer. -- David Bowen speak
Absolutely -- Chenoa Jarmon shout
You know that big cars are generally not safer - not SUVs anyway. -- David Bowen speak
Professor do you mean like in Washington? -- Laura Miller Moderator comment:
What do you mean, Laura? -- David Bowen speak
SUV's give false sense of security -- Chenoa Jarmon Moderator comment:
This is ways that system could be developed almost has perfect as the internal system of a human body, when it comes to transportation and disposing of harmful waste that causes ozone depletion, and greenhouse gases. This system could allowed better use of nin renewable resources to better serve the world. -- Ronald Creswell shout
people certainly drive a lot more agressively in larger cars. -- Jane Sutherland Moderator comment:
That is another idea but will people be willing to give up their vehicles -- Laura Miller Moderator comment:
What if gas goes to $10 a barrel? -- David Bowen speak
I gotta go- goodnight everybody and drive safe and be careful -- Desmon Caldwell shout
i gotta go-so peace, drive safe, be careful and goodnight everybody -- Desmon Caldwell Moderator comment:
good night Desmon -- Jane Sutherland Moderator comment:
OK, everyone got that point - small cars do give rise to safety concerns. But smart highways can keep cars away from each other, like the air traffic control system keeps planes away from each other,. -- David Bowen speak
good-night Desmon -- Chenoa Jarmon Moderator comment:
When you said smart high ways are you talking about the subway in Washington D.C. (Metro transit) -- Laura Miller Moderator comment:
No - smart highways are where a computer drives your car, watching out for other cars. -- David Bowen speak
Take-care Desmond...stay alert out and in there. -- Ronald Creswell shout
The system looks at all cars and keeps them clear of each other. -- David Bowen speak
I mean, it will take awhile before I would trust it, but engineeers think it can be done. -- David Bowen speak
I've always been a little leary about the thought of having the computer drive -- Jane Sutherland Moderator comment:
Yes, and rightly so.System like that eed work -- David Bowen speak
Computers mostly fly the airplanes now -- David Bowen speak
In Detroit, it is hard enough to keep the People Mover going! -- Chenoa Jarmon Moderator comment:
This is in the future! -- David Bowen speak
look at our people mover downtown....! -- Jane Sutherland Moderator comment:
Ohhhhhhhhh, that is an idea. -- Laura Miller Moderator comment:
Will smart highways be more expensive than creating alternative fuel vehicles? -- Chenoa Jarmon Moderator comment:
Hmm. Smart highways could also save fuel. -- David Bowen speak
But that chapter is way off. -- David Bowen speak
I don't think so Laura...we love our cars....the bigger the better. -- Jane Sutherland Moderator comment:
Well, Riley asks how could they be designed so we would like them? -- David Bowen speak
He suggests that if they had an air of quality and sophistication, we could get to like smaller cars. -- David Bowen speak
Say, like a well-designed cell phone or MP3 player or PDA. -- David Bowen speak
these highways would be run solely ? -- Jane Sutherland Moderator comment:
Probably you could override the system -- David Bowen speak
N, Laura, they won't -- Chenoa Jarmon Moderator comment:
Who won't do what? -- David Bowen speak
OK, Riley and msaller cars. More detail in later chapters, but he talks a lot about acceptability in chapter 2. Can you see why this is an important issue, in this topic? -- David Bowen speak
Smaller cars would also suggest people should have smaller families -- Chenoa Jarmon Moderator comment:
Not necessarily. We would still need larger cars for some purposes. -- David Bowen speak
and smaller frames. -- Jane Sutherland Moderator comment:
LOL -- Chenoa Jarmon shout
The point is, do we keep on buying a car for the most demanding trips we have, or more for the average trips? -- David Bowen speak
Especiallyif gasoline beocmes much more expensive. -- David Bowen speak
I love smaller cars, I have always had a small car because I just do not like the stress society puts on trying to manouver in traffic today. Sometimes I get to work shaking like Don Knotts -- Laura Miller Moderator comment:
smaller cars are less expensive -- Mignon Banks Moderator comment:
Yes, so maybe we could have several for different purposes. -- David Bowen speak
In response to Laura - people will not want to give up their large cars -- Chenoa Jarmon Moderator comment:
You can't know that - what if gas is $10 per gallon? -- David Bowen speak
People are not buying the largest SUVs as much right now, and it is only $2 per gallon. -- David Bowen speak
OK, are people beginning to see how all of this fits together? -- David Bowen speak
Hmmmm? -- David Bowen speak
Chenoa-- everybody does not like to drive a large car, and for those that are, they are really suffering with the gas prices sky-roketing -- Laura Miller Moderator comment:
If goes up to$10 per gallon people would give up their cars in a minute -- Mignon Banks Moderator comment:
Perhaps within society there need to be a comprehensive psychological survey on individual custom designed vehicles. Maybe we can make some sense to where we need to develop to improve our standard of mobility. -- Ronald Creswell shout
Well, that is an interesting point, Ron. -- David Bowen speak
Hwear me out on this. -- David Bowen speak
You can't do focus groups or marketing studies on really new ideas, because people don't understand them until they see an example. -- David Bowen speak
Riley makes this poiint very well. -- David Bowen speak
Before the SUV, if you asked people if they would like an SUV, they would have been puzzled. -- David Bowen speak
I willhave to find the place where Riley talks aout this. He has many good examples of this. -- David Bowen speak
Look at the economy people are already staying away from spending more money than nec. -- Mignon Banks Moderator comment:
Hopefully that is temporary, Mignon. -- David Bowen speak
Just a minute - I'm going to get my book. -- David Bowen speak
Thank you--SUV may be bigger but when people abuse them they become a weapon -- Laura Miller Moderator comment:
One way to gather this information is having customer satisfaction that critiques vehicle designs during sale of vehicle. -- Ronald Creswell shout
Can't find that section right now. -- David Bowen speak
Why would anyone in their right mind buy an SUVG with economy and gas prices the way that they are unless you are rich, I just do not see the logic. -- Laura Miller Moderator comment:
Wait a minute - this is beginning to sound like a war in here! -- David Bowen speak
Let's agree to disagree. -- David Bowen speak
status symbols? -- Jane Sutherland Moderator comment:
But Riley does write some very good stuff about how to make smaller cars seem better to us. -- David Bowen speak
Yep, show and tell -- Laura Miller Moderator comment:
OK, now on to another topic. -- David Bowen speak
Riley calls it the technology of fuel economy, or something like that. -- David Bowen speak
Chapter 3 -- David Bowen speak
There are many ways our current vehicles waste energy. -- David Bowen speak
First, gasoline can bve burned incompletely, but the computer in your car does a pretty good job of minimizing that. -- David Bowen speak
But then there is something called the Carnot cycle. -- David Bowen speak
Carnot is a French name, he lives in the early 1800s -- David Bowen speak
Pronounced car-KNOW -- David Bowen speak
It refers to a "heat engine" -- David Bowen speak
Practical and technical reduction of the vehicles size, which effects 82% of the vehicle's needs is partt of that technology of fuel economy. -- Ronald Creswell shout
In a current gasoline or diesel engine, we burn fuel to heat the gas in the cylinder. -- David Bowen speak
When we heat the gas, it expands. -- David Bowen speak
As it expands, it makes th piston go down, turning the crankshaft. -- David Bowen speak
Burning the fuel heats the gas in the cylinder -- David Bowen speak
The heated gas expands, moving the engine. -- David Bowen speak
So after the burning takes place, we are converting heat to motion -- David Bowen speak
This is called converting heat energy to mechanical energy -- David Bowen speak
A device that converts heat energy to mechanical energy is called a heat engine -- David Bowen speak
So our current gasoline and diesel engines areheat engines. -- David Bowen speak
Carnot found that a heat engine has a limited efficiency -- David Bowen speak
Did everyone print out the agenda 4? -- David Bowen speak
Well, let me go ahead -- David Bowen speak
This kinectic motion soon allows traction. If drag persist, and heat contracts like an idle vehicle, then wasting of fuel is common. -- Ronald Creswell shout
Agenda 4 has been printed....affirmative. -- Ronald Creswell shout
Coverting heat energy to mechanical energy is limited to about 25% efficiency, with our current technolgoy -- David Bowen speak
If we could get higher temperatures inside the cylinder, we could get higher efficieny than 25% -- David Bowen speak
But the temperatures are already high enough that iron and steel are close enough to melting -- David Bowen speak
We DO need a safety facotr, right? -- David Bowen speak
Iron and steel start to lose strength if temperatures are too high. -- David Bowen speak
Okay I see in chapter 3 where it its talking about a better fuel economy. How a modern automotive powertrain can achieve fuel economy in excess of 100 mpg, provided mass is limited and the vehicle is aerodynamically clean. -- Laura Miller Moderator comment:
Well, wait a minute - step by step here. -- David Bowen speak
One possibility is that fuel cells are notheat engines - they convert fuel energy to electrical energy without going thorugh the heat step. -- David Bowen speak
So they have a big advantage for efficiency -- David Bowen speak
That is one reason there is so much interest. -- David Bowen speak
Perhaps better tire traction and keeping vehicle in motion are one way for a more efficient fuel economy. -- Ronald Creswell shout
So - point #1 - heat engines, at least with out current technology, have a low efficinecy -- David Bowen speak
But Ron, if the engine wastes a lot of energy, you can't get it back with better tires. -- David Bowen speak
Once it is wasted, it is lost -- David Bowen speak
We need to gain efficiency at every point that we can -- David Bowen speak
The rest of the powertain - transmission,gears, bearings, tires - is not too bad, especially with radial tires. -- David Bowen speak
We reduce wasted energy with an around fuel efficient vehicle that included first where the rubber meets the road to the fuel cells. -- Ronald Creswell shout
There is one more place within the engine that wastes energy -- David Bowen speak
I took you over it during the last class -- David Bowen speak
That is the pumping losses - creating a vacuum in the intake manifodl when the engine is operating at reduced capacity -- David Bowen speak
A big engine has to operate most of the time at reduced capacity -- David Bowen speak
That is why smaller engines get better mileage -- David Bowen speak
Yeah when you talked about part of the engine block -- Laura Miller Moderator comment:
yup -- David Bowen speak
One way that hybrids do better is by having smaller engines -- David Bowen speak
But when you really want to GO, you use the gasoline engine and the electric motore AT THE SAME TIME -- David Bowen speak
Smaller engine, but not less performance. Clever, hih? -- David Bowen speak
huh? -- David Bowen speak
(My fingers are getting tired) -- David Bowen speak
and how when it opened it was taken in air, like when we breath in -- Laura Miller Moderator comment:
Yes -- David Bowen speak
You mentioned that the bigger the engine the more it takes to slow it down, when sitting idle it burns more gas. -- Ronald Creswell shout
Yup -- David Bowen speak
very clever but we'll never truly be rid of gas for fuel? -- Jane Sutherland Moderator comment:
Well, gasoline is really a great fuel for cars. -- David Bowen speak
We will go into that in more detail later on -- David Bowen speak
But for now, it is really a mix -- David Bowen speak
Some parts are easy to ignite -- David Bowen speak
But they would cause knowcking without the parts that are hard to ignite -- David Bowen speak
Knocking can (will) destroy an engine -- David Bowen speak
So it won't be easy to find a fuel as nice as gasoline -- David Bowen speak
There has to be something out there...that is just as good or better? Maybe we need to redesign the car to meet the need. -- Jane Sutherland Moderator comment:
Yes, but alternatives are expensive, and we won't really know how good any alternative is until we put it into widespread use. -- David Bowen speak
Then we are up against that investment thing again -- David Bowen speak
Put down your $billion to find out if someone else has a better idea - then you lose your billion -- David Bowen speak
In a way, having a lot of alternatives can be a problem -- David Bowen speak
Hydrogen might be a good alternative, but it also has problems that we will get to -- David Bowen speak
I have enjoyed chatting with all of my professor and my classmates. I am getting ready to leave now because I have along ride home. I had to come to the library tonight and I do not want to end up on the news like a student did last week. -- Laura Miller Moderator comment:
Well, maybe this is a good point to stop, but I have a couple of questions -- David Bowen speak
First, did this seem to be a good method to use? -- David Bowen speak
This evening's conversations has been one to write home about. I hope everyone learned a great deal and carry this meeting of the minds to our next class gathering. To all stay alert. -- Ronald Creswell shout
I think everyone got a good chance to ask questions, which from my point of view is VERY good -- David Bowen speak
have a safe drive home Laura...thanks for your input -- Jane Sutherland Moderator comment:
Take care everyone and be safe. -- Laura Miller -- Laura Miller Moderator comment:
Did this work weell tonight? -- David Bowen speak
I loved it...except the shouting allowd some unneccesary comments to kind of take up the discussion. -- Jane Sutherland Moderator comment:
Yes, tht wil change if we do this again!!! -- David Bowen speak
Thank you Laura -- Ronald Creswell shout
Did the main points get through? -- David Bowen speak
One, that developing alternatives is expensive and risky business -- David Bowen speak
Yes they did....are we able to print out the conversation from this evening? -- Jane Sutherland Moderator comment:
There is a transcript - I will post it on the web site -- David Bowen speak
I believe the main points got through -- Chenoa Jarmon Moderator comment:
Can someone say what they hought a main point was? -- David Bowen speak
Yes, the topics that were bought up tonight were helpful and the class gave a lot of input. It was nice to hear different opinions. -- Laura Miller Moderator comment:
OK, but someone go back and think of a main point -- David Bowen speak
OK, global warming has a strong scientific consensus -- David Bowen speak
It may not be exact, but it is god enough that we need to start taking it seriously, that is if we ever are going to take scoience seriously -- David Bowen speak
alternative vehicles and fuels are an expensive venture to invest -- Chenoa Jarmon Moderator comment:
Yes, that is good -- David Bowen speak
Heat engine inefficiency and pumping loss inefficiency -- David Bowen speak
Also,making small cars seem attactive to us will take work -- David Bowen speak
Riley has some interesting designs there. -- David Bowen speak
I think that we all realize that there needs to be alternative solutions to the growing problem of global warming... -- Jane Sutherland Moderator comment:
And petroleum suplly -- David Bowen speak
If oil prices go hgher, we need to start finding alternatives -- David Bowen speak
Or use less -- David Bowen speak
If we send all of our money to Saudi Arabia, that's less for us -- David Bowen speak
It wouldn't take that much work if the price of gas becomes impossible -- Mignon Banks Moderator comment:
Your points was well taking Prof Bowen. I thank everyone for sharing their thoughts. -- Ronald Creswell shout
Yes, but if there is a real oil price shock, that is even worse for the economy. -- David Bowen speak
We discussed everything from Global Warming to fuel prices and I feel that everyone really bought some good points to class. We still did not come up with a solution for using asubstitute other that fuel, but we are getting there. -- Laura Miller Moderator comment:
OK, I've been happy with this discussion -- David Bowen speak
I think it is clear that you have a lot of questions thatyou need to be able to ask -- David Bowen speak
That as good -- David Bowen speak
Also, I think we got to see how nterconnected these problems are -- David Bowen speak
But how do you solve a big, complicated problem? -- David Bowen speak
You divide it up, piece by piece -- David Bowen speak
good night all and I'll see you Monday!! -- Jane Sutherland Moderator comment:
the economy is already in shambles and once again we see that the probability of someone purchasing a new SUV is getting less and less -- Mignon Banks Moderator comment:
I agree th ecoomy coud be better, but I don't think it's in shables -- David Bowen speak
It could be a LOT better, thqt is -- David Bowen speak
OK, I think this has been good. Good night, all -- David Bowen speak
THANK YOU -- Mignon Banks Moderator comment:
That's nice, thanks. -- David Bowen speak
Profess. Bowen how can I obtain the transcript for this entire session -- Mignon Banks Moderator comment:
I will have to get it off the server and post it. -- David Bowen speak
Maybe later this week -- David Bowen speak
Good night everyone -- Chenoa Jarmon Moderator comment:
Is it possible that we can have more class sessions like this -- Mignon Banks Moderator comment:
Well, I was thinking of that. Maybe we can talk about it next week in class -- David Bowen speak
I really enjoyed it -- Mignon Banks Moderator comment:
Yes, I think it was interesting -- David Bowen speak
Perhaps limited personal vehicle use, better mass transit, and present plentiful renewable alternative fuel usage [e. g. helium gas or hydrogen energy]. -- Ronald Creswell Moderator comment:
Well, helium is not a fuel -- David Bowen speak
That's why people want to use it in dirigibles - won't burn -- David Bowen speak
Thee is more to making effiicent vehicles, though -- David Bowen speak
We are saving on fuel and the environment if we have more sessions online...ha ha -- Mignon Banks shout
Perhaps we could use present overwhelming renewable energy [e. g. helium or hydrogen]. -- Ronald Creswell shout
That's right. -- David Bowen speak
Riley writes about this -- David Bowen speak
But do we in Detroit really want people to drive less? -- David Bowen speak
How about that? -- David Bowen speak
Not as whole but I would love to drive less -- Mignon Banks Moderator comment:
Well, I have been up since 3 AM, and time for me to say goodnight! -- David Bowen speak
Detroit cannot afford to loose drivers because we are home to the big three -- Chenoa Jarmon Moderator comment:
BINGO! -- David Bowen speak
Thanks prof Bowen!!! -- Jane Sutherland Moderator comment:
Many Detroiters are directly and indirectly employed by automakers -- Chenoa Jarmon Moderator comment:
Bingo! -- David Bowen speak
This is VERY importqant stuff for us to get right -- David Bowen speak
The Michigan economy will severely suffer -- Chenoa Jarmon Moderator comment:
So we need to get this right, right? -- David Bowen speak
Alright lets compromise keep ours vehicles, have decent mass transit and non driveable central city areas for environmental protection. -- Ronald Creswell shout
This is not just fun and games for us - this is life and death -- David Bowen speak
Yes! -- Chenoa Jarmon Moderator comment:
Take-care everyone. -- Ronald Creswell shout
Bye, all -- David Bowen speak
bye -- Chenoa Jarmon Moderator comment:
Good night everyone, get some rest. I enjoyed our discussion although I was late, sorry about that. GoodNight What we need to do is find an alternative oil which will allow/want us to drive more and then that will help the Michigan econonly -- Mignon Banks shout
Good Night Jane -- Mignon Banks shout
good night Mignon! -- Jane Sutherland shout